. . .a Falling Out and it’s Over.
Jun 25th, 2007 by Jane Devin
1. I care about the truth
Several days ago, a contributor to this site wrote me an angry email because she thought I had pulled her post. Actually, it went into moderation because she had made an error at sign-in and the system treated it as a first comment. Her letter to me said, “I was sorry to see my post spit out, I suppose I was good enough when you needed me to send a letter to help you get published in People magazine. . .”.
This is just one of the stupid rumors that has spread like a plague – that I attempted to get an article of mine published by having people write into People magazine. It’s idiotic, and would be laughable, except that it just doesn’t go away, no matter how many times I send out copies of the letter I originally wrote to members of QV’s site. It was my one and only attempt at being an activist outside of writing. I thought that if enough public interest was shown, People might do a story on Anna’s Texas family, which many of Stern’s supporters seemed to want. I never would have sent this letter had I known what ugliness would follow.
I apologize for the form letter to you all…..I have been hard at work trying to get somebody in the mainstream media to take a look at what you guys have all compiled…….. I am asking that you write a brief letter to [email protected] — in your own words . You can send them a link to one of the pieces of info,or to QV’s or my site, or even simply let them know you are concerned about Dannielynn being around this Texas family. Whatever you want to say — say it! THANK YOU!
It was this letter, reprinted here in its entirety, that fueled allegations of me being a “media whore” and of “media shopping”, “limelight seeking” and a dozen other lamebrained things, by two women who have continually attempted to prop themselves up by tearing me and others down.
I have let many small idiocies like this go, banishing them to the same corner where I place purposeful ignorance, but I am not – by any stretch of the imagination – a martyr for anybody’s cause. I can let such things go when they stay within the confines of one or two people’s wrong-minded perceptions, but when they result in persistent rumors that just won’t die, and that affect me personally, I feel a need to set the record straight.
For the record – anybody who reads that letter and sees “media whore” either cannot read or is not operating with a full deck.
2. I care about the truth, and integrity
A few weeks ago, a reader who had some interesting information meant for Birkhead and Stern wrote me, questioning a new email address Howard K. Stern’s sister Bonnie had given her. She wondered if the address might belong to the same two women – we’ll call them “Gladys” and “Fanny” here – who had become a source of mistrust for many people. While I am not part of that effort, I offered to pass the information on for her, and find out what I could.
Bonnie Stern was well aware of the issues many people, including myself, had with these two. In fact, Bonnie’s own words from a public thank you note that was posted on Gladys’s site (”To ‘Fanny,’ all of her volunteer helpers and ‘Gladys’ and her Husband”), had been taken out of context by one of these women. Bonnie’s note, in part, read “I am sorry that so much greed has come to this.” Bonnie, (I later learned through one of Stern’s attorneys, not Bonnie herself) was speaking of the greed that caused litigation, but this is how her words were portrayed in an email from Gladys to QV, which she copied to Stern’s sister and attorneys:
“And just look what Bonnie has to say about people like you and Jane. . .”.
This was the first time my name was brought into the ring, and I was not happy about it, especially since the letter went on to accuse me of “having a LOT of facts wrong and plagarized (sp) from books.” Gladys never contacted me directly with her allegations – instead she attempted to discredit me, without facts of her own and without merit, through her attacks on another.
I responded to the allegations with a strongly worded letter of my own. I never heard back from Gladys, but I expected that. I never heard back from Bonnie either, although it was her note that had been used as part of the assault. Nonetheless, based on what the attorney said, I apologized to Bonnie for believing the way her words were presented in Gladys’s email, and we both moved forward to discuss other things.
Fanny, meanwhile, was sending emails out to people saying that the Stern family had disowned my site and QV’s as “unwholesome” and “greedy”. The smear campaign went into high gear — but how did it even begin?
In March, QV posted an article about James Sanders on her site. Gladys – then a contributor to the site – thought the article contained wrong information, and wrote a letter to QV accusing her of trying to be the next TMZ at the expense of the Stern family. She then demanded that QV remove every post Gladys ever made on annanicoleandhowardkstern.com because she (who wrote posts like “Prayers Needed for Howard”) didn’t want to get sued by John O’Quinn. A preposterous and illogical assumption, but QV complied, especially since Gladys threatened her with legal action and cc’d her “personal attorney” on the letter.
Bonnie also wrote QV asking that the post be removed – QV complied with that, too. The post was online for a little over two hours. However, the information was not new – and had been on CTV boards for two weeks. (Incidentally, the Sanders information was found to be accurate, but that’s old news now).
Gladys didn’t stop there, though. She accused QV of possibly ruining Howard’s case in court with this information, as if it were some sort of smoking gun, or as if the justice system turned on what was written on a website.
She then went on to accuse QV of blowing her “attorney work product” privilege.
Gladys is not an attorney, nor an employee of one. She was simply collecting information, most of which was gathered by other people, most of which was public information, and passing it on to Stern’s attorneys. She has no “attorney work product.” At this point, there appeared to be some delusion of grandeur at play that concerned me. Other comments such as “and darlin I am working with a LOT of ppl very high up in this case…” only added to my concerns.
I sent a letter out to one of Stern’s attorneys then, and copied Bonnie Stern. I was concerned about two things, namely that Gladys appeared to be operating under the assumption that she was an actual part of Stern’s legal team, and that she appeared to be trigger happy in threatening lawsuits. Bonnie never responded. In a later conversation with one of the attorneys, I was told that there was no special relationship with Gladys or Fanny outside of an appreciation for the public information that was collected and sent, and that the same appreciation was extended to all who offered support. No website or its contributors had been “disowned”.
In my original “Blogging Howard K. Stern” I addressed some of the allegations made against me by Gladys and Fanny. I felt it was my right to do so after being so thoroughly dragged through the mud, but I was also mindful of other people’s investment in the issues, so did not give the full account. Some readers did not respond well. Some wanted more details and felt I was too cryptic. Others did not want the site sullied with “online drama” and felt I should not have responded at all. The thread deteriorated into arguments among contributors and I pulled the comments and rewrote the post.
Gladys’s first few posts on her new website were not about Howard K. Stern or the various cases, but the laws as she saw them.
“Posting ‘annoying or harassing posts’ using an alias, pen name, nick name or pseudonyms is now illegal! Rest assure we are taking these threats very seriously and are dealing with them in the right order and venues. . .”.
My slight defense was apparently viewed as “annoying or harassing” to Gladys, and again she attempted to pull some sort of imaginary legal trigger on those with whom she had issues.
Gladys was officially through with QV’s site, but continued to collect information from its members, mostly through moderator “Fanny.” However, when Fanny began deleting posts without permission, and taking it upon herself to decide how the site would be used, and who could post what, and began demanding that all research information be sent to her, QV released her as moderator. Gladys and Fanny then started their own website.
It was only after the fact that QV found out the full extent of damage done. “I have been contacted by select media outlets to run this site’s information,” Fanny wrote in emails to others. Apparently, not only was she secretly deleting posts and pilfering information collected by others, she was also passing herself off as the owner or proper contact on QV’s site. Of course she never told QV about these “select media outlets.”
When she was released as moderator, Fanny furiously scribbled off a long letter to QV’s members entitled “Since NONE of you BOTHERED to ASK”. It was a long diatribe, heavy on self-pity for all the “thankless tasks” she had done, and included this: “(QV) is well aware that ALL the information that has been passed on to me goes to (one of Howard’s attorney’s) assistant. There is a beautiful open door policy between us and if it weren’t for the workings of many members on this site much of the informaiton (sp) would never have seen the top of her desk.”
This was the type of mindset I found so disturbing, first from Gladys and then from Fanny. The email addresses of Stern’s attorneys are all on the internet. The implication of special, even exclusive, relationships seemed particularly remarkable since I was assured by one of the attorneys that no such relationship or exclusivity existed.
This was the general background of the “internet drama” as it played out from March until recently.
3. I care about truth, integrity, and keeping confidences
When I received the letter asking about the “new” email address from someone who did not want to send their information to Gladys or Fanny, I wrote Bonnie a letter and asked her who the email address belonged to.
Bonnie replied, “It’s the email of the liason that sends it to the correct lawyer whether it be in CA, GA or the Bahamas… that’s where I send things that come my way…”.
I googled the email address given and found it connected to a Wiki article (which has since been removed, but which has been cached).
A True xxxx, BDSM, Stormxxxx, cajunxxxx. . . .BDSM writings, adult web sets, columns of Daddy Sxxxx, Poetry of Sirxxxxx, alternative lifestyle abuse, D/s relationships. . . .News related to BDSM, BDSM symbol. . . .
I wrote Bonnie back and told her that I knew who the email belonged to, and that I was disappointed.
Later that night, I was asked to a chat to explain the situation in private to QV and the moderators of her site. Many members who had been active in finding information did not want to deal with Gladys and Fanny. During that chat, I suggested they send their information directly to the attorneys. I also said that I did not think Bonnie, or the Sterns, cared where the information came from — that Bonnie was just a sister doing her best to help her brother.
During the chat, one of the moderators said that they had sent information to that address, and in return got a thank you note signed “Howard K. Stern’s Legal Liason Team.” She forwarded a copy to me.
I was concerned about the impropriety of online lay people representing themselves as “legal liasons” for Stern. I was also concerned that letters being signed this way were connected with an adult web site. I thought the attorneys in the case should know, so I wrote two of them in confidence and copied Bonnie Stern. I understand that QV wrote a letter as well.
The BDSM site from the Wiki article sits on a site with only four others. One is an adult, self-proclaimed ”non-porn” site featuring various Dom/sub writings, and another is meant to support people abused in BDSM relationships. Gladys claims ownership of both these sites . The other two are sites that paste celebrity faces on nude bodies, with links to harder core and pay-for-porn sites. Originally, QV believed that all sites were owned by Gladys, but the official registrations did not bear this out. My email listed only the primary one.
It was Gladys herself, and not me or QV who made this information public. Gladys did this on her own website, replete with links to Flurtz chocolate and her BDSM sites, when she wrote a long post about who the real “Gladys” was – most of its text dedicated to defending her right to an alternative lifestyle and slamming other people’s “closed-mindedness”. In that post, she quoted words from emails she would have not have had access to – and would not have even known existed – unless someone forwarded her a copy.
I spoke with one of the attorneys. They did not forward the letter I sent in confidence. They did not believe the other attorney would have. That left Bonnie Stern, the only other recipient. Would she have? It didn’t make sense to me.
A few days later, I received a ping from Gladys’s website to my own. A ping is received when one wordpress site links to another, and it appears as a post. I clicked on the link to find “An Editorial Opinion” by Gladys in which she – once again – took the matter to a public forum. I allowed the link to stand on my site, once again in the “Blogging Howard” thread, and invited readers to see the matter from Gladys and Fanny’s perspective for themselves. And not surprisingly, the thread turned ugly. The point of the whole matter was – again – missed. It wasn’t about who had an alternative lifestyle – it was about who was misrepresenting themselves as “legal liasons”, and the mix of an adult website with anything concerning Stern and his legal team. On that thread, misinformation about the official ownership of the last two registered adult sites was posted. I removed it. I then blocked the thread from further comments because it became unproductive.
In her “Editorial Opinion,” Gladys put a word in quotation marks, attributed to me, that was in the first email I sent. One of the two attorneys, the one I didn’t speak to, was not copied on that letter. This email only went to one attorney, and Bonnie Stern.
So who broke the confidence that set off this chain reaction? Who sent out copies of emails that were clearly confidential, or shared what was in them? I do not know for certain. I only know that they did not leave my mailbox except for the intended recipients.
I do know that Bonnie gave Gladys’s BDSM email address to a room full of people in chat – I have the chat log. I know that at the time she gave it, she was aware that people were leery of Gladys and Fanny and did not want to deal with them. I know that in an email to me, she told me the address belonged to the “liason” but would not provide me a name.
I know that since Gladys made this public, she has made the top friends of Bonnie’s “myspace” friends, while several supporters from QV’s site – and QV herself – were removed. I don’t understand the draw of myspace and don’t have a page there, but several people who have diligently supported Stern have expressed their hurt over the matter.
4. I care about many things, but nothing about this sad chapter, not anymore
This was not the largest reason I had to leave the story – I told you it was the smallest. It is, and yet it’s one of the longest pieces I’ll ever post on this site. There has just been so much garbage, strife, and disingenuous behavior thrown at my web space, and me personally – as well as QV’s site and her personally – for so long. . .and so much needless angst that supporters of both sites have had to endure, that it was time to clear up the mysteries and clean the air.
QV, feeling betrayed, frustrated and hurt after months of extending time, care and support has opted to close her site. This site will stay open but as promised, I will not write about this subject again. I will not respond to any posts on any other site about the matter, and people may say what they please about it. This issue is closed for me, and for that I am profoundly glad.
-THE END-
There is a graphics companion piece for this article, meant only as support for those who were directly involved in the information gathering process; who have been personally affected by these events; and who are presently in good standing. To access this piece, please send your request via email.
Fanny and Gladys’ lifestyle seems to have fried their brain.
Well Well Well…
Fanny and Gladys you know who you are. And your followers are reading this at its best. A trailmix of goodies and truth be known.
And yes I agree Isabel, they not only fried their brains but their websites are enough to curl your hair. Soft porn? highley questionable, look further. What a way to sell chocolates!!!
tia
Good Morning Jane
Good morning everyone.
Great great writing I just love it.
Funny what a little power did to Glady’s and Fanny’s brains. They lost all sense of reason,honesty,justice,loyalty,friends,feelings,to be called Legal Liasons???? To puff up their cheeks like they were of some importance? To lie to Bonnie and manipulate everyone near them and anyone they were dealing with at the “various media outlets”. Over Jane wanted coverage over the ground breaking compilation of work everyone had done to call her a “MEDIA WHORE” is beyond idiocy. For the ONE TRUE thing Fanny and Gladys craved was fame and recognition for many many other peoples work and to never look back and to never APOLOGIZE just goes to show how self serving and cannibalistic those two vultures are. I guess Bonnie doesn’t care if “HER LEGAL LIASONS” were in the ass spanking tie me up and gag me business,Bonnie didn’t care that someone was trying to tell her,Bonnie the hawks and the leeeches and the talking heads are looking for any bit of a morsel to throw at Howard and his character…MAYBE JUST MAYBE you don’t want your “legal liason” email to be linked to A BONDAGE AND SADO MASOCHISM SITE!! GEE does it take a rocket scientist to figure that out? Because quite frankly it IS something that could have been or will be traced back to HOWARDS SOURCES! What if there is some sort of supeona for materials they have recieved or emails that might be linked to porn. Far fetched MAYBE totally impossible? NO. To never get a reply from Bonnie was uncalled for but she was under a trance by Gladys and Fanny and their devious little ways. She still is. BUT she is a smart enough woman to see this side of the coin IF she is as smart as her brother she would OBJECTIVLY listened to both sides and heeded warnings being thrown at her left and right. Not realizing these grubby little fingers stained from weeks of ink from a 100 other peoples research and blood sweet and tears were inching ever so close close close closer to BONNIE Stern. Quite frankly IT IS NOT ABOUT PORN ALONE,it is about the fact that Bonnie befriends and get sucked up into an eternal vacuum that is Glady’s and Fanny. A vacuum that sucked and sucked and sucked and sucked everything it wanted then BLEW DUST AND DEBRIS in the face of those that got the vacuum the materials it needed to stage this heist of trust,justice,loyalty and dignity and at any cost. They just wanted the material. IF Bonnie cared about her brother getting all the information that was being collected daily and nightly by people from all walks of life FOR HER BROTHER AND HIS VINDICATION And for JUSTICE. She could have simply said “I am not going to PLAY SOLOMON” between the two sides of this but instead since my focus is on ahhhchocolates MY BROTHER AND POSSIBLY THE REST OF HIS LIFE. I will either provide a neutral email or I will just drop a little note to say THANK YOU to us little peons who gave the grubby fingered little BD/SM vacuums ALL OUR BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS WORK. While they were under the guise of “LEGAL LIASONS” More like “LEGAL RISKS TO THIS CASE” and YOUR BROTHERS FREEDOM. I personally whether appreciated or not have went to bat for the people I BELIEVE ARE IN THE RIGHT on more than one occasion on more than one level directly to Bonnie VIA her MYspace and other people who I thought would listen to me. ALBEIT I didn’t have every single word right I sure had my heart in the right place. Kinda might leave someone feeling as you were left once too. But since Bonnie took us peons all off of her myspace because Gladys and Fanny already bought their plane tickets to California we got very limited in how to continue to try to reach her. Then it became a stance of I DID ALL I COULD. So don’t forget or get so caught up in the game you lose sight of who’s playing,who’s caring and who DESERVES what. And then ask yourself HAVE I ACTED THE BEST WAY I COULD HAVE? But the one thing that carries me through is hoping that the research waving(our research) waving that Glady’s and Fanny signed their names to and thrusted in the face of Bonnie Stern did make one bit of difference to Howard or his plight. BUT MAYBE WE WILL NEVER KNOW. The moral of the story is keep your hands clean you never know who’s heart will be in them next.
Jane and QV,
Be proud of whom you are and the dignified and honorable manner in which you have run your sites. My sincere apologies to each of you for the hate, ridicule, and malicious attacks upon you and your character. I look upon you with renewed respect and admiration. Through this process you’ve not only questioned your own motives but you’ve asked us to examine ourselves but to also examine you. Upon examination I found your motives to be pure, humane and compassionate.
To Fanny and Gladys – I hope that you will take the time to examine your motives. An interest in helping others often stems from an ulterior reason. Were your motives pure, or were they self-serving, either personally or professionally? What cost were you willing to sacrifice? Were you willing to sacrifice your reputation, willing to sell out your friends? I think in the end that you will find the reasons to be self-centered and egotistical. I hope that it was worth all that you’ve lost and the price that you pay.
Bonnie and friends of Howard – I question the logic in having Howard linked to legal liaisons which promote a porn (alternative lifestyle) site. In the final analysis, whatever the outcome, people are judged by their associations and the perception of such an association could only be detrimental to Howard.
Amybtru
” And then ask yourself HAVE I ACTED THE BEST WAY I COULD HAVE? ”
I and I know many others(yourself included) can look in the mirror and be proud of who is looking back at them.
Dear Jane:
I think it is important that your readers also know that many innocent people who had nothing to do the G&F tragedy became victims of very hurtful responses. They had communications cut off for no other reason than they were a part of this site or QV’s. People, who sacrificed many hours of time, people who took off work to help full time for this cause. People who gave of their time and talent, who worked day and night and used their own money to further the cause. The irony of the whole thing is that you and QV were labeled as unwholesome.
WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO DO NOTHING BUT GOOD ARE TREATED THIS WAY!!!
Jane,
You know your own heart, so don’t worry about the evil people that see nothing good in anyone. You will never be able to please everyone all of the time and many, none of the time. Continue to go with your gut and what is placed on your heart. These things thrown your way were meant to deter you, but they only resulted in you moving on and getting better and better. You have real talent and don’t let anyone convince you otherwise, no matter what. This is a God given and no one can take it away.
I believe G and F are ultimately paving their way to hell.
Jane, we all know which way you’ll be going in the end.
You have been a source of truth and reason. You also have alot of faithful readers and you know I am one of them.
It’s just a shame that you and QV had been put through all of that when you were only out to help. G and F were the ones that seemed to be helping themselves, in the guise of helping someone else.
Dear Jane,
You have taken the high road.
I’m really, really looking forward to your next article!!!
I love reading your writings.
Love Always,
Freida
Joni,
That’s the way evil works! Although I hate things went down the way they did, it’s time to move on. I just hate the evil doers think they’ve won. They really haven’t. There are other important matters in the world to discuss. Some people have to toot their own horn for fear that nobody will notice them. I say to them, Whatever!
When you try to do good to and for someone, believe me, it will be noticed by others. No matter what is said or has been said about this site and QV’s, the good hasn’t gone unnoticed. That’s what it’s all about. Someone was helped through these sites and to me, that’s a positive.
WOW! Amy,
I should have read you comment before I posted. WOW, you said it all.
Jane,
We should send a bill for Services Rendered. LOL And that little word that caused so many problems was true after all. And to think you were being requested to apologize to them. Unreal! Well, we live and learn.
What Logical wrote I ditto:
Be proud of whom you are and the dignified and honorable manner in which you have run your sites. My sincere apologies to each of you for the hate, ridicule, and malicious attacks upon you and your character. I look upon you with renewed respect and admiration. Through this process you’ve not only questioned your own motives but you’ve asked us to examine ourselves but to also examine you. Upon examination I found your motives to be pure, human and compassionate.
Dear Jane,
Although I am a new blogger on QV’s site, I’m sorry to see you
both have had difficulties. I have enjoyed reading your stories, yet I haven’t blogged here before. Best of luck to you, and I will
miss your column.
Wow, Jane, I see why you didn’t want to write this last chapter. What a mess. Also, in its way, totally human…as in the poorer side of human nature.
I remember a post ‘Gladys’ made about how HS’s attorney called her about the letter you and/or QV sent…how, according to Gladys, he had no problem with her being the ‘legal liason’ even if she wasn’t signing her name and even if the email she was using linked back to bdsm sites. IF that is true, I blame this Stern attorneys as much as anybody else. Apparently he did share your email, like apparently BS or the other attorney did in the first letter you sent about the ‘work product’ issue. Then again I don’t think I’d believe a SINGLE word that drooled out of Gladys’s mouth.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this. Trust is sometimes all we’ve got and to have broken yours to cowtow to those two seems totally out of line given all that you’ve done and tried to do in the name of common sense.
Like EJ, I also look forward to going past this and look forward to the future.
Thank you Jane for the insight.
Im glad I stopped drinking Koolaid along time ago.
Hi Jane, I am sorry that these greedy, malicious, so called ladies,did this to you…. jealousy is a terrible disease to have ….I hope they get over it. At first , I thought you were talking about Thelma and Louise, but, Fanny and Gladys… PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE. I am happy we are moving on to other topics. WE have been cheerleaders, supporters,and counselors for both sides. The situation has been dissected, evaluated and throughly discussed and written about. I am happy i found your site. I have enjoyed every article and every debate. Every one is a unique individual with different backgrounds and ideas.. My Mom always said,” Two heads are better than one”. I agree. We have some great debators and writers. Many have profound insight. You, Jane, particularly!! Remove your self from this for a couple of days and go have some fun. I insist… Do kid stuff, eat a ice cream cone, go to a good movie, the library or the zoo[my favorite] take care of that little girl [you] .And come back to us…YOUR FRIENDS,J
Actually, Jimi, too funny. . .but I am taking a little girl, a friend’s four year old, to the Mall of America’s Camp Snoopy and aquarium today. I may enjoy it even more than she does. I miss being a mom to a little person — they always provide a great excuse to rent Disney movies. - Jane
Jane, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Whatever fame and fortune is being sought by the other party will indeed lead to their end. No matter how wonderful things seem for them at this time, their motives will catch up to them.
What I want you to know is that you should never look back at this experience with disgust. Instead of focusing on the bad that came out of it in the end, focus on the good you did. Many of us who read and comment on your site had no other outlet, you provided a mature and compassionate view not just on a man, but on the abhorrent treatment he received with no proof or justification. You gave voice to alot of people who couldn’t find the words, you galvanized many “sleeping citizens” into action, and you gave compassion to a man who’d been exiled into the land of the guilty for no other reason than ratings. NOTHING in that is shameful or regretful. Your intentions were pure and remained pure, for that you are to be commended.
I wholeheartedly support you and QV, you are both to honored for what you did. The time as come to move on not because of this drama, but because you’ve done your part. It took alot of bravery and hutzpa to stand against the masses and the huge tide of unjust crucifixtion and hold your ground. It should make you both proud to know you are strong enough to withstand that. Those who stand for nothing, fall for everything. It speaks to who you are and your foundation that you withstood this barrage. Be proud and stand tall.
I’d be lying if I said I no longer support Howard, though I am sensitive to your plight as I am to QV’s. I understand that in times of intense pressure and grief paranoia and suspicion are rampant. It’s in those times that we make the worst and likely life altering decisions. That doesn’t mean that I think his legal team’s choice of allegiance is right, just that I can grasp the idea that many a misstep has been made in the heat of battle. In due time the reassessment will be done, if it’s done too late then they’ll all just have to feel the flames and deal with the decisions they made. What I first came to support was his mistreatment in the media, and then the man I assessed by his actions. I don’t personally know him, but my own compassion for him and his plight is unwaivering. I wish his legal team and Bonnie would be more careful with who they allow into his confidence, but I can not “turn off” the support that has been steadfast for months. If I could then I’d question that support and my own definition of it, as well as who I am to be so fickle. That’s no disrespect to either you or QV, as I don’t feel I have to choose sides to be sympathetic to both plights. Fanny and Gladys are the root of the issue in my opinion and they WILL be dealt with. You reap what you sow, there in lies the plot of your future. You and QV have sown nothing but goodness and hard work, so you’ll undoubtably reap the same.
I look forward to moving beyond this and sharing delightful dialogue with you and the rest of your contibutors in your coming articles. You’ve done your best with this and made a change, no matter how small. There’s a big world out there filled with other atrocities and other beauties we can and should share our thoughts on. Thank you for all that you’ve done, and I look forward to whatever this site moves on to discuss.
EPU.
EPU, I agree with you, and my support for Howard remains the same. As I said in the last thread, there has been no retraction from me, and won’t be. I stand by the support I have given in the past and still feel. Thank you, once again, for a beautiful and inspiring post. - Jane
Jimi,
You said jealousy is a terrible disease. I agree, but what you don’t usually hear about are the ones on the receiving end of that jealously.
I’ve had a lifetime of being on that end and now Jane knows what it feels like. I hope Jane that you can handle it better than I have over the years.
It literally eats you from the inside out. It’s very hard on the stomach and meds don’t completely do the trick.
I don’t know if you all realize it or not but Bonnie Stern is the owner and maker of Flutz Chocolates, which we know is a “sexual arousal enhancement” chocolate. That may be the reason she doesn’t care about the link to the porn sites. I believe they advertise her product don’t they?
Dear Joni, I am very old now….. and yes, i have been there and done that. Not so much any more because i am retired. Boy, what a relief! some times friends and family can be the worst possible critics. It use to really bother me, not so any more. I can act as crazy as i want to and people ignore me… but I can fight a good fight if i have to. Now ,I just choose my battles very carefully. Good luck to you and stay strong.J
People are people. And I think the Internet, with the quasi-anonymity, gives people courage and power they might not otherwise have in their lives.
I have devoted 10 years of my life and much of my life savings providing more than half a million files of information online related to genealogy and the Civil War. - It would seem that it should be appreciated and is by some.
However, I have come to this conclusion: The more I put online, the more there is to criticize.
Some people will find something to pick at no matter what the circumstances! There are just petty, ugly and jealous people in the world.
Get past this Jane and don’t look back.
What a nightmare of events! I am glad there is no “Gladys” or “Fanny” in my life at this time. Now someone please enlighten me: What does BDSM mean?
Jimi,
Thanks dear, for your kind words. I’m not a spring chicken myself lol, but it seems no matter how old others get, they just don’t seem to be able to change their ways, so it’s a never ending battle and I seem to get the worst of it. I do try to steer clear as much as possible though. Being the youngest in the family and looking far younger than my age, isn’t always the best place to be.
I wish I was as strong as you, and Jane, I hope you are strong also. I just hope my stomach holds out until the rest of me is ready to go lol. Thanks again.
Oh Stella, lol, you asked what I didn’t have the courage to ask, but I think I’ve pretty much put it together from what other posters have said, but still don’t have it down pat enough to tell you for certain. I’ll let someone else do that.
Stella, I’ve learned words in the last five years, since I’ve been on the internet, that I never knew existed lol, and people would tell me they couldn’t believe I never heard of them lol.
My one son warned me that I’ll have to have an open mind when I first went online. I sure got it opened for me lol. It’s been a trip.
Hey guys. BDSM stands for Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism.
In some things that I have read about it, it is supposed to be role playing. For others it’s a way of life where one, usually the woman lives subservient to the man who is dominant.
There are also gay relationships where there is one “sub” and one “dom”. Also there are relationships where the man is the sub.
From what I understand, some of these people get sexual gratification from being flogged, electrocuted, spanked, and whatever. The others get the same from administering it.
I was reading where a woman was talking about being “collared”. Use your imagination on that one.
Stella,
You really don’t want to know what ‘it’ means.
Wish I didn’t.
All this is so sad and depressing. I have know too many people who seem to get pleasure from the pain of innocent people, who have no problem and feel no sorrow with the destruction their actions cause - but why, oh why, did it have to happen here. Most people on this site seem to be so sweet, honest, sincere, informed, caring, reasonable - and brilliant to boot. So many of you - I just want to reach out an hug because judging from what you say you speak from your heart. Every word Jane writes somehow touches me deeply and you just KNOW that she is a fair, reasonable, kind and loving human being. Since I was a little girl I was always drawn to the underdog, the weak, the one in pain. What I end up feeling is profound sadness and too much anger - just as I feel now. I wonder if there is anywhere that good in not invaded by evil. I wish I could understand how anyone could feel pleasure gained from trickery, evil deeds and dishonesty.
the other evening on a coutr tv story was the true story of a teen who was abducted by a man and woman . and kept in a box under their bed. this happened in the 80s. others may have seen it before. they also had a child. they kept her . abused sexually and other ways for 7 years. in that time they had her as their slave and she was so obedient they took her to visit her family, telling her that the members of this cult. would harm her family if she said anything, left her for a day or so and picked her back up. the wife started reading the bible , when the husband was’nt around and she and the slave even started going to church together, at that time the wife told the girl to leave and go to her parents. which she did, but never notified the police. it was the wife who told her preacher about this and he in turn took herto the police and she told her story there. the man and woman. were both arrested, and when they searched their house they found books that the wife had ordered all the head boxes chains and whips and ect out of, theses magazines were from a bdsm site. it is the scariest thing for ppl who are lost and have no one to turn to come upon a bdsm site, and find all the kindness they ever wanted, and they are hooked.
HI Friends, I also wanted to know about bdsm but was ashamed to ask. And linda ,I was also doing research on my family tree. It’s been a real challange. It appears that they didn’t keep records on women like they did men, most of my info came from the US census and the family bible ….and QV. ….Is collared like in ‘choaked”? I am recieving worldly education 101…………thanks girls..ps, joni, i also look younger than my years and have stomach problems. Sounds like we were on the same picnic. I am eccentric, however, and i don’t trust people so much any more. I think that happens to some of us after we get kicked in the butt. Thats what my sister says anyway. I agree..That and growing older. Don’t worry so much…you will be ok.J
I suppose I’ll have to write an article about sexuality and BDSM somewhere down the line, when we’re more removed from the present situation.
In the interim, no, collared does not mean choking. Erotic asphyxia is the name given to the act of choking during a sexual scene.
To be collared means that a submissive has accepted a Master or Mistress as his or her rightful “owner” and has agreed to be his or her slave. Generally, there is an agreed upon contract signed by both parties beforehand.
There are many sexual kinks in the world, and many forms of expression, most of which are engaged in by consenting adults. In the organized BDSM world, “safe, sane, and consensual” is the standard creed. It may be “anything goes” but only when both parties agree. Of course, not everyone follows this creed, just as not everyone follows the Golden Rule.
I don’t know Jimi so I did a quick search and here is what I found.
“To hard core BDSMers the collar signifies possession, and belonging.
Jane you are the best and told it how it is. I love you and QV and support you. I enjoy your writing….the truth!!!!!
We still need to go to KFC sometime……yummy
Jane, I love to read your articles! Also enjoy the comments from the other gals. At this moment I still don’t know what really happened,but sense it was really nasty.
Your humanity sent you into a crusade to rescue a soul that you felt was abused by the media. You believe he was innocent of any wrong-doing,and defended him with all your might. You searched for the truth, and and on the road you found that “not every thing that is bright is gold”. At the same time you became bigger and stronger and shining with a light of your own . WOW! How much you have learned. What beautiful articles you are going to write!
Jane,
Thank You for writing this and explaining what happened. I love your writing and will continue to come here. I look forward to your article on BD/SM. I know of a site where you could find information. LOL
Linda
PA
Thank you jane and all the others for answering my question w/o shaming me. J
Aww, Jimi. If I was made to feel shame for all the questions I have asked along the way, I’d probably never ask another . . .and that would be a shame in itself. - Jane
Jane cant wait to see the new article….I love a fresh new start…I feel good…
Love ya Jane
Jane,
I don’t know what’s more amazing. The fact anyone would turn on you in the first place, or the outpouring of affection and protectiveness that we all felt on hearing that some people did you wrong. One thing’s for sure, nobody in my family will be getting a box of Bonnie’s erotic chocolates under the Christmas tree this year. And that’s final.
Alison,
That was too funny. Thank you for adding some levity to this thread!
Hi Jane,
Just a short note please check your email.
thank you,
tia
Tia, I responded about an hour ago? Nothing new since then? Jane — who’s off to bed now!
Goodnight Jane ..pleasant dreams
I was pondering the BDSM mentality of Gladys and Fanny. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I think they felt that they had posters from your site and QV’s site “collared”. The research being sent to them directly because of feigned camaraderie, the ridiculous baby talk and sickly sweet euphemisms to draw in unsuspecting, trusting, generous souls led them to feel powerful and as if they owned the unsuspecting.
All the early postings both were involved in were a form of grooming. Building trust and then exploiting the trust only to throw it back at the very same people who allowed them access and feeling that they were entitled to the submissions by so many. And, in a way, all the email and hours of research submitted to them directly was a form of power and ownership for them.
They only became angry when you and QV dared to step outside of their control. You thought for yourselves and defied their edicts! When QV posted the Sanders connection, they were enraged because this was research they wanted for themselves, to claim as their own and original to them. Did they even take into account the revelation of the relationship on the CourtTV boards or the ease of access to Texas Public Records? Apparently not.
So many have shown that they are not Bound to these Imposters, they refuse to be Disciplined with outrageous emails by these Imposters, do not submit to the Imposters’ joy in Sadistic manipulation and recognize the Masochistic tendency of the Imposters in that they are creating and subjecting themselves to drama and public humiliation.
You, Jane Devin, and QV, don’t need the false celebrity. You stand on your own merits: compassion, truth, openness, inclusion…You are both real people who know what is right and good and how to elicit the same from many just by being who you are and by letting others be who they are.
Different isn’t wrong.
Deceitful is.
Hi Kim, that was an excellent post and a very interesting and thought provoking theory. Thank you for sharing that.
QV
The topics you have written about have always moved me in so many ways. I will continue to frequent your site. However, I would elect to bypass an article pertaining to BDSM. It is not a topic I would be interested in.
Bravo Kim A (kima)!
I find your post to be both logical and valid, especially the following “They only became angry when you and QV dared to step outside of their control. You thought for yourselves and defied their edicts! When QV posted the Sanders connection, they were enraged because this was research they wanted for themselves, to claim as their own and original to them.” I believe it was that moment that the line was drawn in the sand.
I applaud the decision made by QV and Jane to post the Sanders connection – not because of what it revealed about Virgie Arthur – but because it brought to light the lies and deceit and at that very moment weakened the power and control that Gladys and Fanny had held us captive to.
On a side note to my fellow friends of QV and Jane…a rose is not a rose. Have you ever taken the time to research what the rose tattoo represents in the BDSM world?
Logical,
Thanks and YOU are one smart cookie! I wrote the gosh darn thing and didn’t even connect the “moment”! Duh!!!
You are right! The nasty emails and threats were the death throes of a defeated, multi-bodied, one-headed enigma! We didn’t understand their total obsession for all information and links until QV and Jane were open enough to post the facts.
I took your challenge and researched the rose tattoo. Glad I don’t have any thorny roses inked on me! It would be false advertising! LOL
Mango martinis on me! All around!
I’m sorry that all this has happened to you Jane.
JANE,THIS IS HE FIRST TIME I’VE COME TO YOURSITE..OOPS.sorry for the caps…it just goes to show how lowlife the sterns are ….be glad you’re out of their loop…
Hi.
I came across this website doing a search on Anna Nicole and came across this particular site. *s*
I read with interest the comments posted in regards to rose tattooes and BDSM.
In any event, I have tried and tried to find any and everything relevant in regards to the supposed symbolism that pertains specifically to BDSM.
Finally (out of frustration lol), I did write a tattoo artist friend of mine in SD and asked him about it.
This is what he said:
“A tattoo of a rose with prominent thorns - the thorns being the means by which the rose protects itself - reminds us that beauty does not come without sacrifice and that caution must be exercised, lest the prick of the thorn draw blood. Love is not without risk. Ecstasy does not come without it’s share of agony.”
Wouldn’t that be deemed as just Live overall? What does it have to do with BDSM?
In any event, thank you for allowing me to post my thoughts.
Peace.
Tasha
#48, Cheryl,
I don’t think that’s very nice calling the Sterns a lowlife. I know you’re entitled to your opinions, and I respect that, but this is very deep.
I agree, EJ. And that’s not a label that I would use, or one that fits, this family. Cheryl, you’re welcome on the board, but please refrain from generalizing negatively about people.
Tasha - You should perhaps not try so hard…Just google “meaning of rose tattoo” and the fifth or sixth link gives you the link to BDSM. Not so difficult. No need to get frustrated. The internet is your friend.
jmo
Things can and do mean different things to different people. Some see a rainbow and think of the sky after a gentle rain — others see a gay symbol. Some see a labrys as a double-headed axe, others see it as a feminist lesbian symbol. Some see a red bandana and think of housework….others think of something different (eg gangs, hankie code) altogether.
Please — let’s not turn this thread into a battle about symbols and sexuality.
What a beautiful picture of Anna into the clouds and away from us on QV’s site…a perfect ending.
Hi Misha! It’s very nice to meet you sweetie.
Thank you so much for your help; I appreciate it very much.
I found this very interesting article online. It is not the link you were talking about, but is a very clear and concise interpretation of the rose in BDSM or is it S/M? I could never get those two straight. *sigh*
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Roses are quite prevalent in symbolic terms within the BDSM community. It is a rather interesting topic since it is metaphoric or contains many layers each which offer some small insight into who we are as human beings and how we look at ourselves and the choices we make in life.
Roses mean: Love, respect, courage, passion, unconscious beauty, happiness, admiration, gentleness, grace, admiration, joy, sweetness, friendship, innocence, purity, enthusiasm, desire, fascination, sociability, gratitude, charm, silence, secrecy, modesty, sympathy, enchantment, hope.
As you can see we place quite a lot upon the appearance of or gifting of a single flower between us. For many of us the rose becomes a symbol of the ‘grouping’ of these traits or feelings which we find so powerful and meaningful in our lives. We ‘want’ our partners, our loved ones to have these feelings about us just as we desire to have these feelings about those we love. Often we use the rose to ‘placate’ our loved ones when we err, trying to use the persuasive ’silent’ voice of the rose to speak for us, to tell our loved ones all of the things we aren’t saying.
There is, of course, another way to look at the rose as it relates to relationships which embrace the BDSM lifestyle. The rose is a particularly interesting flower in that the flower itself is magnificent, a vision of absolute fragile, delicate beauty. That beauty and perfection is ‘guarded’ by it’s crown of thorns which from a metaphoric standpoint is the unique marriage of pain (the thorn) to pleasure (the rose) - or by further extension the marriage of the attributes of the rose as described above to the choice to wed these feelings to sensations, actions and behaviors which appear to be in opposition to the ‘gentility’ of the rose itself. In a sense, it is to embrace the paradoxical nature of S/m itself.
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The one word that caught my eye right off the bat was “symbolic” in regards to the rose/BDSM.
Oh I absolutely love the Internet Misha! :))) It’s not my friend, but my best friend. I have learned so much over the last ten years I have been online. I go through withdrawals if I can’t get on. Have you ever had that happen to you? lol
In any event, many thanks for your response. I appreciate it.
Have a great day!
Tasha
Dear Jane,
I wish this article had not ended so quickly, and could then be filed under the category of forgiveness. I wish people would apologize
I sure do wish a lot, don’t I? LOL
I am going to miss QV’s site. I will try to control myself, and not drive you and Art Harris crazy.
Love,
Freida
Logical,
Your so right a pefect ending. Just peaceful
Well, it looks like I missed a lot again. I personally do not let bullies bring me down, instead I take them down. LOL You never truly know who you talking to or if they say they are who they say.
Jane, I wish that you could have just ignored the ignorant! Misery loves company in their case. Good luck with your future writings. I will still be here.
Lynderella, if you are still reading, please email me.
I’m familiar with all three of the websites, and have been in this from the beginning, when QV’s site, and then yours were the ONLY ones that took a stand for Howard Stern. By the only ones, I mean anywhere. No TV station or magazine was taking his side, and nobody spoke with the passion QV and her posters did, or the eloquent voice of reason like you did.
That other site, well, you just have to see the irony. They purposely spread a disease and then attempt to sweep it all away with posts that say This Site Will Not Cause any More Stress to the Stern Family!!! They may fool people who are new, and who haven’t watched their games in progress, but they don’t fool me.
I’m disappointed, Jane. Sad that so many people stood up for all the right reasons, and in the end were shot down or pushed aside so that Bonnie Stern could sell more chocolate. I defended her when she was on Dr. Phil and people put her down for advertising there. I figured she had a business as well as a brother. But now, I feel it’s apparent that she’s used her brother’s tragedy as a publicity campaign. She used her place near that tragedy to get her name and her product out there. And when she had a chance to show some personal integrity, she instead chose to mislead people, those people being Howard’s supporters.
I’m glad you’re not using your time and talents on this anymore. There are honest, decent people out there who could use your help, like Debbie. Many others, I’m sure. I will remain a loyal reader.
Bless you, Jane and QV, too. I hope the future holds something bright and beautiful for you both.
I hope Jane does not mind if I thank everyone on this site for their support as well.
Barbara, I am so thankful for people like you that have eyes and can see the truth.
Some people still don’t get it that I (and I believe I speak for Jane as well) did not change our opinion about HKS guilt or innocence as to the accusations against him.
I just could not go on anymore knowing what I knew. Jane had her reasons and they were pretty much the same as mine.
Hard working people had investments of time, energy and emotion and they wanted to know why. So we told why.
I am happy to move on as there are other things to write about and other people that need help. Terry Armstrong’s story is just one of many that should be heard.
Even though I am a chocoholic of the normal dark chocolate, I am sorry that it was my favorite sweet that put an end to a great story. To those who are happy to see this story end, they do not know any better. White chocolate to them!