The Lost Stepbrother - Found
May 11th, 2007 by Jane Devin
According to a source with knowledge of the family, the name of Anna Nicole Smith’s “missing” stepbrother is Larry Dale Jenkins, aka Larry Dale Hart, Dale Cleria Jenkins, and several other aliases. He was born in 1960, the son of Donald Ray Hart’s ex-wife, “Dixie” Joann Hilscher. Hart later adopted him. When the ex-wife had a run in with the law, both Larry and Hart’s biological daughter Shauna were sent to live with their father and his then-wife Virgie.
Jenkins is listed in the Texas Sex Offender registry as high risk. His criminal background is extensive, and includes convictions for burglary, assault with a deadly weapon, assault to a disabled person with intent to commit bodily injury, making terrorist threats and resisting arrest.
My source tells me that Jenkins has been estranged from the Hart family for a number of years.
Jane:
I am pleased to see that you have started to unravel the background on Anna’s extended family which I am sure will help us understand more about not only her but also Virgie.
What is the current status of Jenkins? Is he currently incarcerated or is he out in society? Thanks.
Editor’s Note: He was last sentenced 9/26/04 to three years for felony assault. He is presently incarcerated, due for release 9/26/07.
It’s very sad that Anna must have felt that there was no one to talk to about this heinous act. I wonder how old she was as well as the age of her alleged attacker.
Thanks for sharing this information Jane. As you said, it takes the public one step closer to seeing the private battles that Anna Nicole must have fought and before Howard K Stern came into her life, she fought alone.
Jane-
You are so resourceful! The information is good to know…some felt she was just saying all of that…but we all knew something had to of happened. But as you mentioned or QV did on her site…nobody bothered to even find anything out about it. I respect your blog more and more every day. Thank you for opening our eyes to all of the pieces of the puzzle not just what the media wants us to see.
this just makes me want to cry!! that poor, poor woman. all she had was howard. he knows it all doesn’t he? i feel so bad for her. i only thank god that we have jane to tell her story. ever heard that song about the secrets she keeps hiding well? it just breaks my heart, i mean i keep hearing but its all falling into place now. rest in peace anna, howard will take care of your baby!!
Jane…here ya go again..The writing gets better and better each time… The truth is slowly coming out…Great Job!!!!
Thank goodness the true story about the Real Anna Nicole is being exposed. How tragic to have to keep a secret like that. Did she ever tell Virgie or anyone in her family? Did they believe her? Also, when you finish you should get this out to the media.
Editor’s Note: Catt, According to the person I spoke to, Anna did not tell them at the time it occured.
Great job Jane, I look forward to hearing more of the truth unveiled.
Linda
PA
with vergies background with her step brother, it may not seem like a big deal to vergie. but i’m sure she knew,because anna said her mother and step father and step brother. and lets look at vergies husbands, rapists and molesters,, except for the one she has now maybe, and sanders, he died before we could tell. that whole family tree has a very dark side to it. vergie had 5 or 6 husbands in the years that anna was home. thats like less than 5 years apiece for each husband. how can you raise your daughter, with the attention she needed, ans the love she needed to feel, when you are husband hunting all the time
Editor’s Note: Hi Vivian, I don’t think that’s quite right. Virgie married Tacker, and divorced him. Then Hogan, but he was gone by the time Anna was two. Virgie and Don Hart married in ‘71 and were married for about 14 years — I’ll get the exact dates down in the next article. So Hart was the only father that Anna really knew. Virgie’s other marriages happened after Anna left the home.
Jane,
Just when I was beginning to think, Larry Dale Hart was a possible wrong name, you proved me wrong lol. I’m so glad you found out all that you did. I don’t know how you do it, but you do.
I’ve never seen such a mixed up family as this one. I certainly hope this is an exception of most family trees. I feel so sorry for Anna and what all she must have gone through. I can’t even begin to imagine the horrors of her childhood.
I’m glad she had Howard in her life for as long as she did. He was the only person she could trust and count on and he was always by her side.
Editor’s Note: I only got this far because of a source with knowledge of the family, Joni. Someone decided to step up to the plate because they felt that Virgie’s story, hence Anna’s childhood story, was not being accurately portrayed. They see room for that here, and hope that by addressing some of the questions, we may come to understand the “more to the story” that hasn’t yet been given space or consideration. - Jane
Jane,
You are absolutely amazing!
Timeline:
1960 Larry Dale Jenkins aka Larry Dale Hart born
1967 Vickie Lynn Hogan born
1971 Virgie marries Donald Ray Hart
1972 Donald Ray Hart Jr. born
1975 Donald Ray Hart Jr. receives brain injury in a gunshot accident
1982 Anna, 15 years old, sent to live in Mexia, Texas
1985 Virgie divorces Hart
The incident had to have occurred before she was sent to Mexia, Texas. It would explain Anna’s involvement with a bad crowd and drugs.
I was raised by wonderful parents. My mother’s family was okay but my dad’s family seems a lot like Virgie’s - less the marriages by by grandparents. Even though I know my dad (the oldest of 13 kids) loved his mother and felt responsible for attempting to guide his siblings he and my mother did not allow my two sisters and me to associate with them. We knew them, loved them but we just knew they were different from us. We were not allowed overnight visits, etc. I always knew that my parents were there to love, protect and guide me. They would not expose my sisters and me to anyone that they felt would be harmful in any way. I divorced when my only child (daughter) was 4. I never re-married but was happy to devote my life to my child just as my parents did for me. I can only imagine what my life might have been like had my parents been different. I love them and will always be thankful for the kind of people they are. Anna was not so lucky. It seems to me that Howard was the best thing that ever happened to Anna. It seems to me that she knew he was. She trusted him and I am so happy to know that with everything bad in Anna’s life something as good as Howard was a part of her life too. I think if Anna had lived she and Howard would have lived a happy life together with Dannielynn. I now can just pray for Howard to find happiness without his beloved Anna. Also, when I was young the police in my small town were uneducated and of a lower class. I was never impressed with the fact that Virgie was a police officer. Fact is, I keep looking for something - anything to like about her. All I feel in anger toward her for exposing Anna to her lifestyle. There is no wonder that Howard loved and felt so protective of Anna. I only wish that he could have been allowed to raise Dannielynn -just as Anna wanted.
Jane,
What a sad and tragic story. Poor Anna never really had a chance; her whole life was one struggle after another it seems. Just when things were finally coming together and she had a good chance for happiness with Howard and her beloved son and daughter, it was over before it barely began. It all breaks my heart.
I am glad that someone is coming forward to shed light on these events. Everyone of us who has ever critisized Anna for her lifestyle should ask ourselves if we could have handled things any better. I have learned so much about Anna from your site and from QV’s blog and I’m grateful for both. I pray she has finally found peace.
Great job Jane. That further reveals the tradgedy Anna dealt with in her childhood, which explains her pain in her adulthood. What a shame she could not live to enjoy that beautiful little girl Dannielynn. Her life “was” a tradgedy.
Finally, some one to set the record straight and give people some understanding of what happen to Anna. I am so tired of people bashing her, in life and in death. Anna was ridiculed and it was not right. Maybe if people understood her better the bashing would stop. There needs to be compassion toward her. With these facts coming forward I pray the compassion begins. Of course not by people who post here but by the people who criticize her. With this history what other out come could be expected.
A mom’s job is to protect their children. Anna did not get that from her mom but The Lord bought her Howard and protect he did. God Blessed Anna with Howard.
Thanks Jane and a special Thanks to the family member who is protecting Anna too. Please bring the truth to the table. The public needs to know the truth.
Excellent, Jane!!!
I had thought maybe it was Donald Ray Hart who molested her and you have cleared that up. He was Anna’s younger half-brother, not a step-brother, so I should have known. (I don’t know how “disabled” he is but he is the one who was in jail for the offense against a handicapped woman.)
Do you know who the step-father was who molested Anna?
Good Luck with sorting this out! (And thanks!)
Good job, Jane! Anna’s life indeed had very sad moments. You mentioned after the article that not all is always black and white and that there is gray. How can anything be gray when it comes to Virgie? I anxiously await your next chapter.
Cara
Until around the time when Anna gave birth to Dannielynn and when Daniel died, I had never even heard of Anna Nichole Smith or Howard K. Stern. I never even heard of the Anna Nichole Show. I started to notice the pictures on TV of Anna holding the baby and also a pic of Daniel. I had asked my son, while he was here once, who this woman was and he told me. Then I heard that Daniel had died.
But it was after Anna died that I really started to listen to the stories on TV. I also noticed how they were portraying Howard in a very bad light and felt that the things people were saying about him weren’t true. I was wondering what ever happened to being innocent until proven guilty. I couldn’t believe this was happening and everyone was getting away with it! The stories kept getting worse and then they were calling him the “m” word and I couldn’t bear listening to that anymore, so I came online to try to find some site that supported Howard, as I had come to support him myself and believed in his innocence.
I first found another temporary site ( that has since been taken off) that had more to do with Larry, but I noticed most of the people on there were supporting Howard. It was there that one of the posters had put up Art Harris’s site and from there I found QV’s site and then this site, Jane. I have been here ever since and am so glad I found you and QV and all the posters here. I have learned so much, never having known anything about any of the players before.
I had followed the court proceedings in Florida and couldn’t believe how a judge could be conducting those proceedings in the manner he was. It was extremely unprofessional in my opinion. He didn’t seem to care that Howard was visibly grieving. It really seemed like Howard was the only one grieving. Also I don’t think Larry Birkhead had any right to be in that courtroom, even as the possible father of Dannielynn. And I just about lost it when the judge allowed Ford Shelley to come into the room and sit on the stand and point his finger at Howard and lie; not to mention showing that stolen tape he brought with him. I hope Shelley gets what’s due him. I will rejoice when that day comes.
This is what still bothers me with Ford Shelley: He went on national TV ( in a courtroom, no less) with a tape that he had stolen and showed it to the world in order to make Howard look bad. He has to have a very good reason to have done that, knowing the trouble he can get into as a result of showing a stolen tape ( I’m assuming that clown tape was one of the tapes Shelley took from Anna’s house. Please correct me if I’m wrong). That’s why I’ve always contended that he is trying desparately to cover up something. Something that has to be bigger than the charges he would face by breaking into a house and stealing personal possessions and showing one of them in court. Something that would incriminate him. Something that he feels the need to put the spotlight onto Howard and make him appear guilty. Even if that clown tape wasn’t stolen, it should have never been brought into that courtroom. Does anyone know if Ford Shelley was a visitor in the hospital room the evening before Daniel died?
It was such a shame that Howard was asked all those questions about how much money he made in various years. I felt so badly for that poor man. That must have been extrememly humiliating, and in my opinion, wasn’t necessary in deciding where to bury Anna Nichole. Most of what went on in that courtroom, wasn’t necessary.
The outcome was good, but the means of reaching it was deplorable. Can anyone of you imagine going through that travesty when you just lost a loved one? People had been saying all along, that that decision could and should have been made in just a couple of hours. I do believe the judge was grandstanding for his own benefit, and Howard had to endure all of that, just to bury Anna where she wanted to be buried, next to her son. Howard has had to endure so much and I hope things will begin to get better for him. He deserves some happiness in his life.
Jane, I’m so glad that you found someone who is interested in getting the facts out about Virgie’s family and what Anna had to endure while growing up in that family. I’m so glad that you have made it possible for someone to feel comfortable in getting the truth out. Thank you for that and all of your writings and I thank that family member who is interested in setting things right.
joni, what a great post. I wonder too about Ford Shelly and asked the same question about him being in the hospital room I was told he visited earlier the same day Daniel died.
I don’t know about the judge and agree with what you said but do support him. It is my belief there were so many attorney’s to fight he had to put it all on the table to get Anna buried in the Bahama’s. I think his plan was to do that all along and he knew it could go on and on with appeals with all those attorney’s…I don’t believe his motives were sinister but that is me.
As far as the judge goes, it is hard to explain what I mean. I do agree that a lot went on that was beyond what needed to be said. I really felt so sorry for Howard, it broke my heart. I was mad at the judge during the trial but in hind sight I think he was under a lot of pressure and simply did not know how to handle media yet alone all those attorneys. It took some of the wind out of him. The thing I admired about him was his heart, I was touched when he shed tears for Anna, totally touched so for all his mistakes, I let it go.
i have been looking and looking for something that showed me about a marriage between thacker and vergie. did you finally find one? there was like 11 months from thacker jrs birth to anna nicoles birth. so i was’;nt sure how all this legal marriages and divorces worked out in such a short time
Joni, you are so right about Ford Shelley. There is something not right there. For some reason he took it upon himself to single handedly try to destroy Howard K. Stern. He said under oath that he would never forgive HKS for not allowing his daughter to call him (FS)
but you don’t try to destroy a man over a phone call.
Could he have tried to discredit Stern because he was a friend of the Birkhead family and wanted LB to get custody of the child…..I guess that is a mystery that will never be solved.
david l tacker , vergie first child . born to her and her step brother david tacker. whether they were married or not, it seems that david is the only one of vergies famly that made someting Good of his life. i wonder why that is? what part in davids life did vergie have? did she raise him? how many years, i wonder. did his father and his tacker grand parents play a role in his life.? was his father a big part of his life. what kind of relationship does vergie have with david. why did he turn 180 degrees than the others? inquiring minds want to know
Vivian –
Virgie’s mother Paralee married George Tacker in October of 1966. David Tacker and Virgie had David Tacker, Jr. in January, 1966. So they were not step-siblings at the time of their union or David Jr’s birth.
I don’t know the answers to your other questions. I would say though that it’s probably rarer than not that all children from a single family share the same destiny.
On interviews, Ford Shelly appeared as though he almost hated Howard. IMO, something was either known by Shelly or Howard that has not come out yet. I don’t know if it centered around the estate or there was more. If what Moe reported was true, Shelly was going to pay him a substantial amount of money to let him into the house, in other words something was in there that may have incriminated him. Larry’s family being friends with the Shelly’s makes me question his character also.
Jane:
I am so glad to be back at your post. When your site suddenly went blank, I thought you were gone for good and I was at TMZ trying hard to describe events as I first heard them. Nobody cared because it was their intention to clobber Howard to death. It is so hard to believe how people who have never met him can be so vicious and so eager to watch him suffer; it seems no amount of suffering by Howard satisfies these horrible creatures.
As for Ford Shelley. Something is, indeed, very strange about the way he has gone about destroying Howard. The conclusion I have reached is that pershaps it was his intention to have Anna to himself in the Bahamas, but then Howard showed up and Ford went completely berserk. It was certainly not his plan to have Howard intrude on what he may have planned with or concerning Anna. If this is not the reason, it has to be something else very big.
It is beyond my comprehension why Ford Shelley is still walking free after telling the world that he robbed Anna’s possessions. Fat chance, but if Anna had really asked him to safeguard her things, how can he believe that safeguarding means public distribution of her belongings? Just as incredulous is the fact that Greta Van Susteren and her employer accepted stolen property and proceeded to broadcast it without having so far paid any consequences. This is unreal!
I believe that Anna used her charm to endear everyone and everyone actually believed they were No. 1 with her. I do not believe she had such horrible things about Howard, however; I believe Zza’s Zza’s “Prince” story about Anna was false and his ulterior motive was simply to call attention to himself and broacast that he is free to have affairs. Anna may have said some less mean things about Howard to others, merely because that was what they wanted to hear and by saying something not so pleasant, they were more prone to give her what she wanted.
As far as carrying out Anna’s wishes, no one has allowed Howard to fully carry out her wishes. It is obvious that with or without a will, the living will do whatever suits them. If they do not get what they want, they find a way to do whatever they want with a deceased person and his/her possessions.
Maryst, I don’t believe that judge was sinister either. I do believe he was putting on his own show though and I will always believe that.
Cara, Shelley lied when he said Howard wouldn’t let his daughter call him. There is more to that tape, although they didn’t show that. Howard told her to use the phone in the kitchen because the other one didn’t work. Shelley had no right to point his finger at Howard and from the beginning, he has been protesting far too much. That is what made me take notice of him. He’s been hell bent on pointing his finger at Howard and it just seems to me that he is trying to hide something about himself. And yes, we may never know what, unless Howard’s attorneys or someone else uncovers something. Shelley has threatened someone before and I wouldn’t put anything past him.
Barbara, I too am fearful about Larry’s involvement with Shelley and Thompson. I believe his family are friends of theirs. It’s my understanding that Larry was the one who introduced Anna to them. Oh, if Anna had never met Larry, things may have turned out very much different. I was disturbed also that Larry took Dannielynn to the home of a casino owner, to stay, when they were in Kentucky. I thought they would be staying at Larry’s parents while there. Someone said there was tight security at that other home, but when I think of why a casino owner needs to have that kind of security, I fear even more. I don’t think there are many casino owners that don’t have mob ties.
I would just feel so much better about that beautiful little girl, if she was still with Howard. Also he kept her out of the magazines and TV. I really don’t trust Larry with that baby. It’s just a feeling I have about him.
I heard there is an arrest warrant in the Bahamas for Ford Shelley. He has supposedly taken what was stolen and given it to the Seminole police. They did however hang on to the computer hardrive for an extended period, they may have been looking for something important. I read something about the house (Horizons) in the Bahamas, there is signed documents I believe at an attorneys office, in ANS favour. I think the name is Callender, but I am not sure. The friend that loaned his house to LB in Kentucky does own a casino, I don’t think the mob is involved these days. LB’s mother and father are divorced,the house he was loaned may have been more suitable for people coming and going. These days most people have home security, if the house is newer security added at the time of building may be more sophisticated, if the builder is like most men ,it may have every gadget available.
Lynda,
I hope the arrest warrant is still active on Shelly. If so, hopefully Anna’s “signed” documents will be the motion that shoves Shelly out the media door. The baby is “almost” in Larry’s custody and they didn’t find any wrong doing’s in Anna’s death. If Howard can make it through the inquest, I believe he will be able to grieve and move on. As for Virgie, I think her past, along with her actions at present has more than done her in.
Barbara
Casinos are a business and they are certainly supported by zillions of people. I’m sure there are good and bad in the casino industry like all other businesses. I think the reason Larry went to stay at the casino owner’s house is because it is probably in a gated community or there is significant security there.
I always got the impression that Ford Shelley likes Howard and he said positive things about him on the witness stand and also in court. He said he knew that Howard loved Daniel and Anna and would never hurt them.I’m sure sure he will say the same in court.
Linda,
Do you recall the two video’s Ford Shelly released to Fox News? The accusations from the stand, plus; Moe stating how Shelly would pay him a substantial amount of money to get into the home…the consistent retributive remarks against him on Geraldo, Kimberly, Greta (all Fox New’s)…..the Shelly’s do not like or care for Howard and IMO were making the case that Howard was responsible for her death.
Hello, everyone.
Firstly, a very wonderful, Happy Mother’s Day to all!
Second: S.O.S!
please, if you have steel-strong nerves, please go to this vicious site
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
and read as much as you can stomach.
It is scary because it’s written in a manner that seems sincere.
But allegations are scary, horrific, and murderous to say the least.
They need to be rebuttled.
Editor’s Note: Kristina, you’re right, that is horrific, and really too much so for this site. I don’t wish to give that kind of webpage any more traffic by posting a link…I don’t wish to popularize it, and links to other sites tend to do that as they move up in a search engine’s directory. So, I’m sorry, but I was compelled to remove the link. I can only hope that those who would read it would see it for the exploitive nonsense it is. Also, please check your e-mail.- Jane
Vivian, David is very close to his mother. Shauna and David have done very well for themselves. The Tacker family were not involved in David’s life. Paralee divorced George shortly after marrying him and he went back to his ex-wife. They did attempt to see him when he turned 18 but he would not have anything to do with them.
Regina, are you Jane’s source? Are you the same as David’s ex-wife Regina? I hope you’ll keep talking to Jane and to us….it’s wonderful to know some first-hand history and to hear different perspectives.
CJ,
Regina is not David’s ex-wife of the same name.
This is for Jane Devin, a post on TMZ that I thought was so interesting and sounds credible:
Hey Dink & Justice for All: I’m getting ready to go to a cookout but wanted to post this info while it is still fresh in my mind. Ok, my friend Laurie, lives about 2 miles from Anna’s condo. Her daughter goes to the same community college that Daniel and his girlfriend went to. They all kind of migrated to the same parties on the weekends. Kathy said that at these parties, there were always drugs, tons of pills and the pill of choice for the party people is Methadone and Ectasy. Daniel preferred Meth, but did not do that much. Laurie is not clear on when his girlfriend broke up with him, but when it happened, he was devastated. He ended up in the hospital for depression, and the doctors put him on Anti-depressents. Apparently the first one did not get the expected results, so he was put on another. Lauries daughter said that after the breakup, Daniel changed. He started partying really hard, taking more drugs, but that his mother nor Howard knew he was doing so.
What I found really interesting was, Daniel was living in the condo (Anna’s & Daniels) and their next door neighbor was Dr. Erosovitch, (Dr. E) sometimes he stayed with some close friends. I had heard, as I am sure you did, that Daniel was staying in LA and a friend was keeping an eye on him. Anyway.
The day before and the day of, that Daniel was to leave for the Bahamas, he was complaining that he did not feel well. He did not want to go, but he did not want to disappoint him mom. I guess everyone assumed he had a touch of the stomach flu. He got to the Bahamas late. Howard picked him up at the airport, on the way to the hospital they stopped for food and took it back to the hospital. He still didn’t feel good. After sometime, he fell asleep in the bed with Anna, at some point, he got up and moved to the chair, where Anna found him dead in the early morning hours.
Daniel told his friends that his mom was always in pain, something to do with breast augumentation and some stomach surgery. Then, in the Bahamas, it was the C-section.
Laurie said that Anna accused Larry B. of hitting her and keeping her at his place against her will. But that she had heard from another photographer that Larry was gay, and she thought Larry was just using her. Now, is Larry gay, ? Don’t know, don’t care. Did he hit her and keep her prisioner, or did she embellish on that. Don’t know. However, everyone knew that Daniel wanted his mom away from Larry, because she had Daniel and Howard believing her. Another time, Daniel, Howard and some friends tried to have an intervention for Anna and she threw a hissy fit and refused. Howard, got upset, took her pills threw them away and left. He was gone about 2 hours and when he came back Anna had more pills than before he left. I guess his mother’s drug use kept Daniel and Howard in a state of being worried all the time. Kathy, said Daniel was one of the sweetest people she had ever met, but that he was painfully shy. He introduced Howard to his friends as “like my stepfather.”
After whatever happened between Larry and Anna, ( and I will never believe it was over a pair of sunglasses) Larry was threatening to take the baby when it was born. I think that is when she becam desperate, because Howard had to stay in LA to prep for the case before the Supreme Court, so she took off and went and stayed with either Ford Shelly or
G. Ben Thompson. That is the point at which she asked Thompson, to put his name on the birth certificate and he said no. Apparently, Daniel was aware that she was doing this and was embarrased, Kathy said that he and his mom discussed EVERYTHING. I personally feel that is a lot of burden to place on someone that young. Anyway, when Thompson refused her offer, that must be when she came up with the idea of Howard being the father.
I am in the process of finding out what the selling price of these condos are, do not have that information at this time. Also, Laurie told me 3 of Daniels close friends and maybe his ex-girlfriend are going to testify at the inquest about how close Howard and Daniel were, and how Howard was like the father he never had, and that Howard is a good guy, but maybe should have made some different choices. But I guess until any of us have walked a mile in his shoes, we cannot really judge.
On another note, in this week’s OK magazine, there are more pictures of Larry and Dannielynne, an article about the security Larry has hired for he and the baby, and then there is a square where Larry is telling about he and Virgies talk. He said that when she told him she wanted to be in control of the money, if anything happened to him , he immediately thought, “I had better check the breaks on my car.” He also said that he made time for her to come and see the baby and she never showed up.
Gotta go make potatoe salad. Talk to you later. What do we do if eventually we cannot get back to this page. I sure would miss you guys.
I’ll check back here tonight or tomorrow. Happy Mother’s Day!
Posted at 1:26PM on May 12th 2007
Hello Regina,
It seems as if Virgie has taken Stern’s place as the villain in this story.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about Virgie Arthur. If she wants to get any kind of public support, she should address the issues. Here are just a fraction of them.
1. Why is Virgie’s family not speaking out on her behalf?
2. Why did Virgie furiously shovel dirt onto Anna’s casket and then walk over Anna’s grave?
3. Why did Virgie use her allotted funeral seat space for the press when there were relatives that would have liked to attend according to Donna Hogan?
4. What is Virgie’s response about the abuse and molestation allegations including that Virgie herself beat Anna Nicole?
5. What kind of mother goes on national TV calling her daughters companion a murderer with no proof along with the other disparaging remarks Virgie made after Anna lost Daniel? Did she not have any empathy toward her daughter?
6. Why did she not try to contact Daniel after adulthood? Why did she not contact her daughter when Anna reached out after Daniels death and please don’t blame it on Stern.
7. Why are Virgie’s demands concerning Dannielynn centering on monetary issues?
8. Is John O’Quinn working for Virgie “pro bono”? He said he was.
If you will be kind enough to answer these questions, a lot of us would appreciate it please?
Howard Supporter,
If you are a poster on that site/thread, please let the writer of that post know I’d be interested in talking with her. Or conversely, please provide a link to the original.
My email address is in “About the Author” on the left side of this site’s homepage. Thanks.
Dear Jane.
I understand your concern, and have replied to your email.
As I’ve said before, it’s just very, very, very hurtful, and I don’t even know HKS. I hope more and more people will visit your website and join the movement for truth and nothing but the truth regarding the Anna Nicole Smith saga.
Blessings to you and yours,
K
Dear Howard Supporter, post #35
Thank you for this astounding write-up and the issues you have raised!
It’s so rare that we read anything at all about Daniel and the last months of his all-too-short life.
There is so much more to the unfortunate deaths of Anna/Vicki and her beloved son, and the truth must at long rise to the surface.
Warm regards,
K.
Dear Howard Supporter,
I read your comment thoroughly.
Finally, what sounds like the truth.
What a breath of fresh air.
#35 great post. I hope for Howard’s sake that more of this “real” truth will come out in the inquest.
Barbara
I believe the part about Larry abusing Anna and/or holding Anna against her will about as much as I believe that Howard killed her. Had that been true, I am 100% certain that Howard and his top-notch attorneys would have been all over it.
The sunglasses saga was a case of “the issue isn’t the issue.” Larry wanted her off drugs and she refused. Things were probably very rocky and the sunglasses incident was just the final straw int he relationship.
There was an email shown on TV - I think Geraldo - that was written by Anna to either Gina Shelley or that other woman who is related to Gina… Anna liked them and wrote to both. Before the baby was born, but after Anna was in the Bahamas, she wrote and was stating her many problems. She said — “and my son hates me…” I thought that was important but there was no indication of why Daniel would have hated her. Maybe because she moved to the Bahamas. Or maybe because Anna was not happy about him being in with the wrong people.
Linda,
If you are believing what Geraldo stated especially with his hatred towards Howard, I am surprised you even paid any attention to it.
There was more to the relationship breakup between Anna and Larry than just drugs. If that were the main reason, that relationship would have been over with a long time ago (remember they were together off and on for two years) and also remember he did get her pregnant while “she was” supposedly on the drugs.
Barbara
1. Why is Virgie’s family not speaking out on her behalf?
Because the media is twisted things and we are trying to protect the children in the family.
2. Why did Virgie furiously shovel dirt onto Anna’s casket and then walk over Anna’s grave?
Again the media twisted things. Did they show you on TV that there was two loads of dirt bought in. Everyone shovelful a shovel full, but Virgie wanted to go last because as she said she bought Vickie in to this world she wanted to be that last one to say goodbye. Yes, she shoveled the “mule” full of dirt. When you see what looks like her stomping was when she was walking on the boards set around the gravesite.
3. Why did Virgie use her allotted funeral seat space for the press when there were relatives that would have liked to attend according to Donna Hogan?
A lot of the family was invited but most could not either afford the trip and/or had passports. As for Donna Hogan, she was there but she disrespect a close family member as they were leaving the hotel. Virgie told that Donna, she was not longer invited to sit on her side of the church. As for Bonnie Stern saying that at the funeral, she told Virgie you make me sick. That never happened, another media twist.
4. What is Virgie’s response about the abuse and molestation allegations including that Virgie herself beat Anna Nicole?
Not true, Vickie told Virgie more then once that bad publication sells more than the truth.
5. What kind of mother goes on national TV calling her daughters companion a murderer with no proof along with the other disparaging remarks Virgie made after Anna lost Daniel? Did she not have any empathy toward her daughter?
A mother that was hurt and scaried for her daugher and new granddaughter.
6. Why did she not try to contact Daniel after adulthood? Why did she not contact her daughter when Anna reached out after Daniels death and please don’t blame it on Stern.
She did try several times but could not reach her.
7. Why are Virgie’s demands concerning Dannielynn centering on monetary issues?
She wants to protect Dannielynn. Where is the money that Howard and Larry both have made off of the pictures and stories from the deaths of Danny and Vickie? Pictures of Dannielynn?
8. Is John O’Quinn working for Virgie “pro bono� He said he was.
That is what he said.
Let me play devil’s advocate with this post. I am not an expert on the densely branched family tree of Anna, but there are some deductions and inferences that I would take issue with. Firstly, the tv quote that set this “search” in motion was, I think, from her ET interview in which Anna angrily responded to comments made by Virgie (to Nancy Grace) that made it clear she suspected Howard may have had a hand in Daniel’s death. VA’s reasoning was something to the effect of, if Daniel wasn’t around and Howard was the legal father of Dannielynn, then if anything happened to Anna, Howard would inherit her estate. She warned Anna to watch who she surrounded herself with “because you might be next”. It may have been inflammatory and based on conjecture, but it was also in keeping with what most of the country thought then and her reasoning was in keeping with Police Investigations 101– if no cause of death is ruled out, including foulplay, who had access to the deceased and who would stand to gain from their removal? I did not read any outright accusation of murder by Virgie. (O’Quinn’s another story)
It was THAT implication that had Anna so upset in the ET interview and she was obviously determined to shove back. Her quote in question was, “You want to hear the things she did to me? You want to hear the things she let my father do to me? Or my brother do to me? Or my sister? All the beatings and the whippins and the rape? That’s my mother. That’s my mom”.
I notice in the comments the frequent use of the word abuse/abuser as a general catch-all phrase as though it’s not necessary to distinguish one form from another. To me that devalues the word and doesn’t attach as much significance to the act. An overly strict parent is not nearly as heinous as a child molester or a rapist.
So first off, let’s agree that abuse is a word that now is defined very broadly. It can be sexual, from molesting to forced rape. It can be physical but non-sexual, everything from spanking a child (now a crime in some areas), to shoving, to punching and worse. It can be emotional manipulation that results in us feeling unworthy, unloveable, etc… Verbal abuse can range from simple teasing to vicious bullying meant to humiliate and decimate our sense of self. Some forms of what now are defined as abusive behaviors have been tolerated within our culture until very recently when the emphasis shifted to exposing rather than protecting with silence those that engage in abuse.
It seems that Anna was accusing Vergie of “beatings and whippings” which without knowing the extent of them was at that time & now, particularly in lesser educated parts of the country, the terminology also used for commonplace punishment. She didn’t specify what she was subjected to by her father, brother or sister, but by adding the word rape we can assume, if true, that it was one of the males at home and that, according to Anna, Virgie allowed it to happen whether knowingly or unknowingly. Why is everyone willing to ignore the father and sister allegation? Because Anna only mentioned brother in the singular there seems some interest in finding out which one, although at this late date it is moot and beyond ever proving. Bear in mind too that the accusations to ET were made in anger and to exact retribution, so their context is worth considering. If in other interviews over the years Anna has spoken of sexual or physical abuse or named the family member(s) who perpetrated it, it would not surprise me. There seemed to be a general lack of stability surrounding her family life and Virgie was an unsettled person herself.
The basis of the post is to by process of elimination, and with an unnamed source who will only be identified as close to the family, strongly suggest that Larry Dale Jenkins molested Anna. He’s got a crimminal record and is listed on the Texas Sexual Registry, but he sexually assaulted a 38 year old woman and was convicted of that in 2001. Of his known criminal convictions that seemed to be the only one involving sex (based on the link). Anna didn’t confide at the time, it’s beyond the statute of limitations, and if untrue Larry wouldn’t have the resources to do anything about it. What’s the point of throwing a name out there for the sheer speculative sake of it, despite his penchant for breaking laws? Outing this guy as your number one suspect doesn’t enlighten us nor does naming names help to understand Anna better.
Let’s assume Larry has also led a troubled life and has his own tale of woe to tell. He’s done plenty of time for his other crimes, so he’s not living a charmed life. Anyway, what makes you think Mr. FBI was so squeaky clean?
Hi Jane,
Great site. In reference to the post #35. That can be found on the TMZ site with the following title.
Bust Out the Mint Juleps… It’s Derby Time! Story date is 5-6-07
I was able to find the article by going to the site, left hand side has a listing of articles relating to the celebrity name, It is one of the last articles about the ANS story and the post is #576 and Posted at 1:26PM on May 12th 2007 by Sally Wonder
Hope this information helps. I just went back to the site, it does seems that QV and others are trying to have this person contact you. . We all want to help get to the truth but in a proper, truthful way and and no one does that better than you Jane. Keep up the great work.
Here’s why it’s important from my perspective, Alison.
Many people, including her family, often accused Anna of lying. Her claims were never investigated for truth and in fact seem to have been swept under the rug.
Anna was not using the event, or “bad publicity” to sell anything at the time, she was genuinely hurt and in pain. I did not see her comments as retribution, but as trying to make people understand her view.
People said she lied. They pointed out how unlikely her claims were based on one brother or another. But they never mentioned the possibility of a third brother. In her FL testimony, Virgie testified that Shauna was one of her children — she never mentioned Shauna’s brother Larry Dale, whom she also raised. That ommission begs the question of why. Yes, he was estranged from the family for as long as eight years. Anna was estranged for ten, but still considered a family member.
So why was this one ommited? And doesn’t it speak at all to the possible truth of Anna’s childhood experience?
Obviously, I believe it does. I believe that Anna, in life and in death, is not often portrayed as a whole person, but as more of a tragic and excessive pin-up girl without much to say to society. . .without many lessons to leave behind.
She was a whole person. A woman, a mother, a daughter, and more. And she suffered a great deal. Some of her suffering, it can be said, she brought upon herself. But there was a mindset there — a psychology of spirit — that was brought on by other events in her life. That’s the Anna I wish to explore. Not the pin-up, not the Playmate, but the person as a whole.
As far as rapists and rape allegations, many rapes remain unreported, and of those that are reported many don’t proceed to trial or lead to prosecution. To say that one molested a 38 year old — as if it somehow precludes the possibility of molesting from other demographics — simply makes no sense. However, maybe Larry Dale did, maybe he did not. Some people close to the family believe maybe he did. Anna said a stepbrother did. Given that, it is at least worthy of asking the question.
Barbara:
I am not repeating something I heard Geraldo SAY. I am referring to the emails that I saw on the show that were from Anna to Gina or to the other woman, whose name escapes me. They were all on the show together. Anna said in the email, “and my son hates me.”
I agree that Ford Shelley did lots against Howard with the items he removed from the Horizons house but I was surprised that when asked if Howard would harm Anna or Daniel he said NO and he said he knows how much Howard loved them. Shelley has already made his statements to the Bahamian police and can’t change them now to make them worse. ….He does NOT say that Howard killed Daniel… He seems to think that Howard MIGHT have flushed something down the toilet later at the house when pills fell out of Daniel’s jeans.. BUT he says emphatically that he has no idea what the pills were and he did not actually see Howard do it. (All that would prove anyway is that Daniel brought drugs with him.)
I think people who believe that Shelley is against Howard will be surprised at the inquest if he testifies. - Too many reporters have misstated that “someone is going to testify that they saw Howard flush methadone pills down the toilet…” Not the case! He never said that!
The evening of the final day of the hearing in Florida, Howard, Larry and Ford Shelley met at a hotel. When Ford was first on Greta after that, he said “it felt good to talk to Howard.” Things later soured and Shelley said Howard was going to have him arrested if he came to the funeral, etc. I don’t think Shelley will go for the inquest, unless it is to help Howard - - and I think his testimony does help him. Both Ford Shelley and Ben Thompson stated that Daniel was using drugs and Anna had been upset about it. I think these statements, as well as the same from Larry, refute the claims by many that Daniel NEVER took drugs. - Bottom line, I think their testimony is good for Howard because it is the claims that “Daniel didn’t use drugs” that has to be dispelled. The people against Howard believe that Daniel didn’t use drugs, so therefore Howard fed them to him somehow.
I love both Larry and Howard and I only want them to stick together for Dannielynn. I don’t see any purpose in blaming either of them for having unprotected sex with Anna. It happened promptly when she returned from South Carolina and a beautiful, healthy baby is the result. According to Howard, the baby could as easily have been his.
Anna’s life was a mess and no one was able to save her. We all have to hope that Larry and Howard can actually be friends because Dannielynn needs them BOTH. Howard seems to come from a good family,as does Larry. All of them love Dannielynn and I hope they will all be able to unite and raise her.
Dear Regina,
Thank you for answering my questions. Would you have time to answer a few more please?
1) It seems that Vicky’s allegation about being raped by a “stepbrother†in not denied by Virgie’s camp. So why believe Vicky about that rape and not her other accusations from that emotional interview? She said that her mother let her “father do things to herâ€, “her sister did things to herâ€. Are you saying Vicky was truthful about one accusation but dishonest about the others?
Regina, what did Vicky’s “father†and “sister†do to her and did Virgie know about it?
2) The public has been told that funeral money made by especially Howard was put into the trust set up by Milstein. There are ways to check those things. Are you saying that Milstein and Stern lied about the funeral money? Larry came right out and said that he made money from pictures of “Vicky†in the past and will in the future. Howard however said that any money made from Vicky’s death forward until the funeral and while he had custody of the baby would be put in trust for the baby. Has Virgie found this to be the case or not?
3) Virgie according to public records was pregnant before she reached age 14. What were the circumstances surrounding such a young pregnancy? Also did she marry Tacker or not?
4) Does Virgie take any responsibility for raising a rapist and a kidnapper and thief? A stripper? Or does she only take credit for the FBI agent and the daughter who would marry a millionaire?
5) Why are there associations, even marriages with sexual deviants and molesters? Virgie was a deputy sheriff. In my part of the woods, officers of the law are trained to be aware of predators such as what was in the family.
6) Why did Virgie miss a scheduled visit with Dannielynn in the Bahamas?
7) After Daniel died, why did Virgie not hop a plane and answer her daughters cries? Virgie could have went right to Vicky’s door and said ‘momma is hereâ€. Vicky cried for her mother. The next thing she knew, Virgie was on national TV and laying on Daniels grave for Splash. Explanation?
Again, thank you for your answers.
While this is the first time I have responded to anything on this excellent website, I have been reading Jane’s articles and responses from others for some time.
My only comment re post #35 “Howard Supporter says” that could taint the truthfulness of what had been written (and I did read this post elsewhere on another website), was I thought ANS lived in a very nice “house” in Studio City - not a “condo” as mentioned. This house was rented/purchased and filmed during the ANS show and Dr. Chris lived next door in another “house”..which was also featured in a show during the second season of the ANS show. when they redecorated a room in each other’s “houses”.
I have become so intriqued by this many, many faceted, very sad story.
Regina
You said
“As for Bonnie Stern saying that at the funeral, she told Virgie you make me sick. That never happened, another media twist. ”
Didnt Bonnie Stern admit to that on TV?
Regina #44,
The media didn’t have to twist ANYTHING that was said or done by VA.
We saw what she did with our own eyes and heard what she said with our own ears. On Greta’s show Virgie said she didn’t know Donna Hogan, now you’re saying she was there at the hotel with VA.
Obviously you feel much love for VA and feel that she is being completely candid,,,and that’s ok for you….
But I see her as being a vindictive liar, who’s only concern is for the money SHE can get from Anna’s estate or DL.
She is not at all crediable and the few tears I’ve seen her conjure up for the media’s sake is just that…for the media’s sake, it’s phony.
Dear Jane,
Thank-you for finding the truth about Anna’s abuse..
I would like to make a couple of requests..
Could you please give us more info on Ford Shelley
and Larry’s real mom….
Thanks again…..
Mary
Regina, Bonnie did say that, she told us on ET, straight from Bonnie’s mouth. As far as the abuse Anna is going to say on ET tonight she would rather not talk about her home life, there is clear stress in her voice and her eyes are with pain. Anna did not believe in talking bad about her parents because the bible says not to, she held this away from the public most of her life. It wasn’t until her mom got on CNN and HLN that Anna finally reacted. Her mom is the most responsible for the way things turned out.
I believe the Howard K. Stern supporters post. I can see Howard throwing the pills away. He is a strong man. As far as the clown video, it was edited to look bad and the medicine Anna was on was doctor prescribed. Howard did the best he could with a situation that most people would never understand. How could he ever repair all the damage done to Anna?
One other thing about Anna being called a liar, that is what family members often do so they do not have to confront the truth.
Some times these children do eventually grow up to become liars because that is what the family tells them they are
Once again a well written article. Yes Maryst, Bonnie did say on ET that she told Virgie that she made her sick. I believe she actually told her this after the funeral at Horizons.
As far as Anna’s family is concerned. The more I learn about them the sicker is makes me. I have never in my life seen such a messed up family as hers. Oh now I’m sure they are out there, but there doesn’t seem to be very many good seeds and I include Virgie in those bad seeds. I personally think (and please some of you don’t take this the wrong way) that any self respecting woman would get involved with such men as Virgie did. If she respected herself any she wouldn’t have been married so many times. Kindof hard to teach your kids good morals and to stand up and respect yourself when you can’t even do that yourself. It is because of her actions that has ruined and ended a beautiful womans life. I have no doubt that Anna ran from her past day in and day out, trying to escape the memories that mommy dearest so proudly planted in her head. Well, I guess I have rambled enough, sorry I do that from time to time. Thank you Jane for the article.
Linda, how can we help but believe FS is against Howard. He went on Greta for over a week telling so many lies, I had to stop watching he made me feel ill. Where do you think the clown video came from? The stolen one.
Yes, he told the truth on the stand when he was under oath and had Krista Barth there. She bought out the truth. He did lie about Howard not letting his daughter call him under oath. He told Greta that lied but in the same interview said Howard told his daughter to go to the kitchen and call because the phone where they were playing did not work.
I am so proud of you Jane. The truth is unfolding piece by piece. Maybe, once the whole truth is revealed, Anna will most definitely be able to rest in peace. Even though Anna might not have told family members immediately, for Virgie to act like Anna was a liar about everything and attribute it to drugs, hurts my feelings. How could a mother do this to her child and profess to love her? I can’t imagine in my wildest dreams how Anna felt at the time. My heart breaks to even think about this happening to any child. I do hope and pray that more will come out, and it will.
Howard was not going to have Ford Shelly arrested like FS said. The police were going to arrest him for stealing.
This is what I have learned today by the post in support of VA.
Anna, went to her mother and told her about the abuse. VA was one of these wonderful mothers who did not believe the child. She simply choose to call little Anna aka Vickie a liar. It sounds like Anna tried to tell other family members and the family instead of helping the child called her a liar. Now isn’t that just great. And to this very day is still calling Anna names. We can all learn a lot about this and to those who have been abused it should validate your feelings. For those who have not been believed same thing. Talking about it helps but being believed and comforted is probably the best cure.
It just blows my mind to think that anyone can defend the actions of Ford Shelley. He was the first one to show his ugly face on the GVS show. He was the one who provided the “clown” tape. C’mon, if he were HKS’s friend why would he try to incriminate him like that? IMO, Ford Shelley is a thief and a liar. FS gave members of the media like GVS, Nancy Grace, Catherine Crier, Lisa Bloom, Rita Crosby and many others all the ammunition they needed to go after HKS.
I will always believe there is something deeper going on that we will never know.
I will never trust Larry Birkhead. I will never believe he is not in this for the money. He is a very shady looking character, IMO.
I wish there was some way that baby can be taken from him and returned to Stern. I find the whole situation very sad.
Ford Shelley has been back and forth on issues. I know he did say in court that Anna and Howard loved Daniel more than life, but he then turns around and says something completely contradictory. I believe the truth and nothing but the truth will come out sooner than later. I think Shelley was saying a lot of negative things against Howard to get him out of that house.
Jane,
Remember? Keep the faith! Good things are on the horizons. I feel it!
Cara, I feel exactly the same way. This situation and many of the character’s involved appear somewhat shady and underhanded. There have been so many contradictions and lies it is pathetic. Ford Shelly to me has hurt Howard as much as Larry has. That is why I have a hard time warming up to Larry. His words on the stand still stick in my throat.
Maryst:
Ford Shelley appears to be a man of questionable character but I am HOPING that his testimony - if he gives it - will be honest and as he stated it before. He was vindictive, not doubt, but he was there in the time following Daniel’s death and he has already stated that Howard didn’t have anything to do with his death… So that is all that matters to me. Neither Howard nor Larry has to have anything to do with him otehr than the issue of the house.
I am dying to know what will happen about the will/estate and if Larry will have the courage to go against current public sentiment and have Howard involved, as Anna would have wanted. - I think Larry will stay friends with Howard and that will also involve the house owned by Shelley/Thompson.
I don’t understand why some people seem to give Larry so much power when it comes to the will. Please explain.
I understand about the body he would have more power prior to the will being probated but once their is an executor under the probate laws I don’t see where Larry is getting power.
Maryst—as my understanding goes, if the beneficiary named in the Will has deceased, the next beneficiary would be the next “blood” relative. That was the manner of the proceedings when my Father proceeded my Grandmother in death. She did not have the Will changed, thus at her time of death, my Father’s name was changed to all of us five siblings instead of my Mother’s. So, Since DL is the next “blood” relative, it would be my understanding that Larry would then be in charge of the finances. That rule may not be ground in stone, but that was the way it worked within my family.
maryst,
Larry has no power under that will. Even though he is Dannielynn’s biological father, Anna didn’t leave him in that will at all. I’m not so sure at this point, that there is even anything to be probated. Sometimes, there are assets outside of a will that can’t be touched by nobody but?
Barbara,
That same thing happened to my family. We had a nominated executor and it stood in the probate court. My mom couldn’t take control of my dad’s assets because she was the biological parent.
The only argument I would have with that would be the fact that Danneilyn is underage, while all of us at the time were adults over the age of 21. We did sign that over to our Mother for her lifetime, which she still is getting the benefit from (it was 35 farmable acres). I would imagine Larry and Howard, may have been discussed the Will…and I do agree that there may not be all that much money there to be had…as for the Marshall Estate…I don’t believe anyone will be benefiting from that one. To me that was more media hype than anything else. I just hope Larry does not use Dannielynn as his cash cow.
My siblings and I were under age. The money that we were rendered for our support, education, etc according to the will, was the only thing managed by my mom.
Ok I think I understand what people are thinking.
I am under the impression that the Marshall estate will settle. I think, from what I understand Howard will be the executor. Larry will only benefit from Dannielynn because the estate will provide her some things in which the caregiver will benefit. Larry will and already has made money from DL.
From what I observe, it seems the real fight is for the Marshall estate and I only say this because of O’quinn being involved. I am not saying he is going to get control of the estate just that he would not be there unless he understood there is legal reasons for a settlement. Anna was Marshall’s wife, he made her a promise, I think they will pay. Peirce got caught forging papers, I really think there will be a settlement.
The reason I think Howard will be the executor is because Anna nominate him.
I have a question. Does anyone know whether Larry ever stated why he wanted a baby with Anna? I understand she had already miscarried a baby of his and yet he went on to get her pregnant again. I don’t believe he really loved her. He didn’t seem to care about any meds she was using that could potentially harm the baby. It’s my opinion that Larry really only thinks of Larry first.
It seemed to me that he insinuated himself into her life and very deliberately got her pregnant.
Anyone have any ideas about that?
Also, I too can’t stand Ford Shelley. He really creeps me out and I still hope that he will have to pay for everything he’s done to Howard.
Also, does anyone know why Shelley/Thompson would let Larry and Dannielynn live in Horizons House? Why would he or they do that? Does anyone know of any kind of “relationship” between Larry and Shelley? There has to be some reason Larry would be allowed to live in that house, but yet they want to make Howard leave.
I would love to know the answers to these questions. Well, I guess I had more than one question lol.
Larry’s family are friends with the Shelly’s/Thompson’s. Anna met them in Myrtle Beach when she was there with Larry. That is why Larry was so welcome, plus it was another opportunity for the Shelly’s to make a jab at Howard.
I don’t know why Larry wanted a baby so badly with Anna. I do have some suspicion’s which does not revolve around being in love with her or wanting a family. I hope that is not true and Larry revolves around raising his bio daughter.
TMZ is reporting that the will was just filed by Howard K Stern today.
Anna Nicole Smith’s Will Officially Filed
Posted May 14th 2007 3:50PM by TMZ Staff
Filed under: Celebrity Justice, Anna Nicole Smith
TMZ has obtained the official copy of Anna Nicole Smith’s will, filed moments ago by Howard K. Stern.
The petition to probate Anna’s will was filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court. It is the same will that was discussed during the contentious Florida court hearings. The will doesn’t name Larry Birkhead as a beneficiary, but the petition to probate lists him as a party with an interest in Anna’s estate.
Joni, I with you on your opinion.
As far as Shelly and Ben T goes they were Larry’s friends, Larry introduced them to Anna
Who knows maybe Howard feels sorry for Larry for some reason. Howard is a very kind soul and probably does not see bad in any one.
Sorry Barbara, I see you already answered the question about FS.
Nice to see on TMZ that Howard submitted Anna’s will for probate.
Since we don’t know what Larry and Howard think about each other, I , again, implore everyone to stop speculating about their motives and let their actions speak.
The important part of Howard’s petition:
Howard is taking NO money.
Larry is NOT objecting to Howard being the executor and the special administrator of Anna’s estate. As special administrator he would deal with all of the outstanding issues of the estate including the Marshall case. It also includes the lawsuit in the Bahamas regarding the Horizons. (Note: Larry is supporting Howard’s actions.)
Larry is ONLY asking in his petition to act as the guardian of his child’s estate. This is the way it should be if people care about the BEST interests of Dannielynn.
Meanwhile, there will be many lawsuits to deal with, including the Class Action
against Anna and Trimspa. They could eat it all up, including the
Marshall money!
Howard knows these matter inside and out and I am sure that he and Larry ARE working together and this shows they are supporting each other. Of course Howard should be paid if they get $ from the Marshalls. At that point, I am sure that Larry will have Howard manage Dannielynn’s estate because he is not really skilled at anything like that.
NOW, we just have to hope that Virgie doesn’t interfere but I am sure she will.
O’kay Linda, but I don’t know why we can not speculate, that is what all the talking heads have been doing. I guess we are just trying to figure this all out and yes we do have some very strong opinions. Isn’t that what posting is for?
I agree. We indeed can speculate.
Yes, maryst, we all have stong opinions. And you are right that posting is for the purpose of expressing them.
At one time, I was sure I would never find anything to like about Howard but I separated the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, and changed my mind. I just want Howard and Larry to stick together because they are both good men.
Regarding Larry getting Anna pregnant, Howard said the baby could easily have been his. To me, they both loved her, perhaps in a naive way. - Larry had wanted a baby with her and she wanted one, too, but had the miscarriage. After that, he said on the witness stand, she didn’t get pregnant again and they thought she might not be able to. Anna had been gone to SC and stayed with the Shelleys for months and only came back to CA at New Year’s. She and Larry got back together that night and that is supposedly when she got pregnant or within the next few days. - Both Larry and Howard probably thought that Anna would give up the drugs when she was pregnant.
Larry originally introduced Anna to the Shelleys but that does not mean that he would support them against Howard about anything. Howard is not fighting the Shelleys for himself; it is for Anna’s estate which is for Dannielynn. He has said that he will devote his life to the baby and I think he will. And I think he and Larry will be very close friends.
Jane, where did Regina go? Did the questions get too tough? I see you took out the part about doing another article, does this mean you aren’t now? I wish you would. I think Anna’s childhood is something people just aren’t talking about and it seems to have been alot of who she was later in life. My heart just breaks for her and all that she went through in her time. Childhood, early marriage, stripping, lawsuit after lawsuit. At the end she just seemed so fragile. I didn’t know then if she’d recover, now we know she couldn’t. This is such a sad story and I think your post to Alison was right. It’s important to tell the story because it was important to Anna. To be known as a “whole person” as you said and not just a series of tragedies.
Thanks everyone for answering my questions. Much appreciated.
The one thing I don’t understand about Larry wanting a baby is where they really in a relationship like that? I can see Howard, he was with Anna for 12 years. I just can’t see Larry having a strong enough bond with Anna that would have a baby. I know Howard said he could have been the father but I think he really knew he was not, it was very wishful thinking by some of us. I really do not think Howard tried to get Anna pregnant. Anna had a lot of problems mental and physical.
When you look at this from Howard’s position is he was honoring Anna’s wishes. I look at it as if a man and women were in a relationship and the women became pregnant by another man,(it happens all the time); the man the women is married to or going to be married to would raise the baby.
I think Stern did not want to get into dna at the body hearing is because he could not give Larry that much power at that time. Larry was acting against Anna and her wishes. It would have been to long of a battle and Howard wanted Anna put to rest with her son. Plus you have to look at it as he was losing every thing it was just to much to bear at one time to lose the last connection. Dannielynn was suppose to be his child by adoption. It is just so sad the whole thing very very sad
I have read blogs throughout the internet and am amazed at some of the comments people are making in reference to the Anna Nicole/Vickie Lynn issue.
Everyone talks about how great Anna was. Everyone talks about how everything that has happend in Anna’s life is all Virgie’s fault. Really? How? Back to her childhood, from what I can learn she was a very rebellious teenager. All of the issues of abuse and rape have only come from her. Who knows what is true and what isn’t?
I am not condoning any thing done by Virgie or anyone else, although I fail to see the perfection in Anna, Howard nor Larry that some see.
We ALL know Anna only married Marshall for his money when he had one foot in the grave. That is apparent in the videos she made of him trying to get him to commit to giving her some of his assets. Does that make her better than her Mother? I think not!
Virgie is condemmend for the kind of Mother she was to Anna. What kind of Mother was Anna? Look at poor Daniel and what has happend to him. She would do and say some of the most disrespectful things right in front of her own son, and she supposedly sent her own biological father nude pictures of herself.
Look and Anna and Howard. They BOTH knew Howard was not the father of Danni Lynn and we ALL know that is why they were in the Bahamas. But look at how much stress and money Larry had to go through to get his child.
Larry condemned Howard and Anna for “Pimping out his daughter” as quoted on one site I read. What has he done since he was determined to be her father?
Everyone talks about how Virgie is trying to make money off Danni Lynn, but look at the money Anna, Howard and Larry has made off Danni Lynn.
The ONLY two people that I see that is totally innocent in this entire saga is Daniel and Danni Lynn, and my heart breaks for both of them.
I wonder how Virgie is taking all of this info about the Will being probated. Perhaps she has given up and started a tell all book.
do you think o’quinn will let her off that easily?
not that i think she wants to go
he probably realizes by now he lost and will stop waisting his money don’t you think?
I think Virgie needs to accept defeat gracefully. She has had the screws put to her by Larry and Howard, Amen!
EJ, I don’t like to think Howard would screw any one, he just did what he had to do to protect Anna and Daniel as he did all their lives. I think if VA would have shown some compassion and love and acted like a mother all of this would not have happen to her. She brought it on herself. IMO all she had to do is act normal, acknowledge Anna was telling the truth and things would have worked out better for her. She would have had public sympathy, people can forgive but you have to admit your wrong doing first. I think she could have gotten the public sympathy she probably needs too. She has to come out and be honest and stop all these assaults.
In my opinion about Shelley, I think he stole those items for his own greed. Not to protect Anna. In my opinion I think he is gunning for Howard because there is more to tell about Daniels death. I will let people make their own assumptions to what I said.
As for larry and Howard I think its great that they are working together for the best for Danilynne. After all that is what matters. I think larry has come to realize the things Anna said were not all in a “drugged” up state as Virgie likes to color it. I think he realized and proabaly still is realizing what her motives are.
Its better in numbers to fight Evil.
Maryst.
You used better terminology than I did to describe Howard’s actions, but the end result is the same. Thanks. I think he is very smart and definitely knows what he’s doing. He’s going about it so methodically. I have to tell you from the bottom of my heart, I’m impressed with what I see coming from him. I believe that The Highest Power will lead him to victory.
Concerning the Will…I viewed the writeup on TMZ and it appear’s as though there is not all that much profit there for gain. Unless there is some money stashed away somewhere, she actually owed.
I adore the man and think he shows great example. I am very sensetive about him, I don’t know why. I see him as a man who is so good it is hard for him to see evil in others. I really believe he would have tried to help VA if she would have acted with remorse. Look at all he over looks. He is now working with Larry. Maybe he had to pick between the two evils or maybe he just plan all did the right thing. Dannielynn would have resented him for keeping him from her biological father as she would have Anna. If Anna would have still been alive they probably would have come to terms and given him visitations. I don’t know why Larry got the way he did but it did not look good for him even if Anna did push him. Maybe he had no choice but after she was gone he should have known Howard better then that. Opri could have been the cause of the problems between them after Anna past. All I know is I am very happy things are going better for Howard. I have said all along from day one Howard will come out of this ok. I prayed for him and really my prayer was for him to find a women to love and who gave him the love he deserves. I hope he can do this with all he is involved with the women will have to understand his devotion to Anna and Daniel because he will have that for the rest of his days.
Regina,
I hope you will continue to post on this site. I appreciate you opening up and telling us about VA and family as YOU know them. It must be difficult to read some of the follow up posts and they probably put you on the defensive. I for one am sorry if we made you feel this way. Please try and understand that we feel defensive about this issue too. And it’s difficult for most of us to understand why you don’t see our point of view. It may seem so black and white when actually it isn’t. Again I ‘ll say to you Thank you for sharing your points of view and I hope you’ll continue to do so.
In reference to Squeaker’s comment #98.
I cannot imagine how you could think you DIDN’T put Regina on the defensive. Your opinions of VA has been some of the most cruel I have seen on this site, and I am wondering, do you even know her at all?
To Regina, I respect you coming on here and standing against so many critical of you and, if you are related to VA, your family. I have seen some really bad things said by people who don’t have an iota who or what they are talking about. It really made me sad the way you were attacked after posting on here and the other issue posted by Jane Devlin regarding VA after trying to explain and defend. GOD’S SPEED MS REGINA.
squeaker, great point and I am too sorry I came off so hard.
CARA:
#61
My sentiments *exactly*. Over the weekend, I saw Larry exploiting the baby again for MORE money in a new issue of “OK†magazine. This money would be his to control. It especially is not relevant that they money goes in a “trust” he formed for the baby. He could use it for whatever, imho, and I believe he will. After his attorney fees are paid, what excuse will he have then for exploiting the baby?
MARYST:
#65
I don’t think Larry will OR should get any power. He certainly won’t be able to withdraw whatever money there is in the estate, without the permission of the Executor of the Will. Howard would have that power, as I see it, because any money is Anna’s money, period. He would be responsible for determining the needs of the baby, as related to whatever Birkhead wants to withdraw. Birkhead will OR should be required to provide receipts for all expenditures. THAT is what Anna would want at a minimum.
Maryst, I doubt seriously Howard “feels sorry for†Larry. Howard is in a situation, where he is forced to get along with Larry, because he feels a primary obligation to the late Anna Nicole regarding her child. Since he is unable to raise the baby (unfortunately), he is trying his best to make sure noone takes advantage of her financially, at least, as best that he can. Howard can’t stop Larry from his personal baby photo ops, but if he could, my sense is that he would.
Maryst, btw, I think “posing†is fine! And, this whole thing has, indeed, been a “tragedyâ€, as you put it. I will NEVER believe Howard has a coochie-woochie relationship with Larry. They may have an “understanding†between each other, but there could never be a deep, abiding, trusting relationship, in my book. It will be *professional*, and that is fine, and that is it.
BARBARA:
Larry was NEVER married to Anna, and therefore, he should have NO legal right to any of her monies. It would be up to the Executor to determine the needs of the baby, as related to any money given to Birkhead for the raising of Dannielynn. If some judge alters that outcome, then, he will be COMPLETELY disregarding Anna’s wishes. No judge in his right mind could possibly give Anna’s money to an EX-BOYFRIEND. It wouldn’t be moral or ethical or right.
Linda,
you’re exactly right. Larry will not get Anna’s money which is basically non-existant right now anyways. Dannielynn will be alloted money from Anna, and since he has her, he will benefit when necessary. No judge is going to alter the will and put Birkhead in it. He is not a beneficiary, period!
BARBARA:
Larry was NEVER married to Anna, and therefore, he should have NO legal right to any of her monies. It would be up to the Executor to determine the needs of the baby, as related to any money given to Birkhead for the raising of Dannielynn. If some judge alters that outcome, then, he will be COMPLETELY disregarding Anna’s wishes. No judge in his right mind could possibly give Anna’s money to an EX-BOYFRIEND. It wouldn’t be moral or ethical or right.
————————————————————-
What post # are you referring to? The only thing I was referring to was that Larry is almost the Legal Father. I am sure whether it is legal or not, he will pursue.
RE: Marshall Family Estate
One thing I hope is that Howard will NO longer pursue or hound this family for what was rightfully determined as theirs by the Texas jury. Marshall, Sr. did not provide for Anna in HIS will, and it would be wrong for Howard or Larry to plague that family anymore. There has been enough heartache for all members of the family involved. Larry needs to support the baby, and Howard needs to just manage whatever is left for the baby in a professional manner.
Since Howard has NO control over her upbringing, then, I especially hope he will distance himself from this whole MESS, and move on in his life. He needs to cut the ties as best he can. Otherwise, Anna’s ghost will follow him the rest of his life (in the form of Dannielynn). He will always be a 3rd & distant party, as far as that child is concerned. Larry will influence the baby as she grows up, and she will believe HIS version of this painful story.
It is with great sadness that Howard K. Stern has had such trauma in his life, but he must find the courage to move forward and to FINALLY and EVENTUALLY settle down with another woman, one who will appreciate him from “beginning” to “end”. It is too soon for those thoughts. We have the Inquest, and he needs to get through that now. But, someday, I hope he will move forward in his life and NOT try to be very close to the baby, in order to still feel close to Anna.
If I were Howard’s sister (I can’t imagine his family NOT wanting Howard to get a life of his own now), that is what I’d want for my brother…
Laura P. I agree with a lot of what you say, I too pray Howard will move on in time. However, he has a lot of work put into the Marshall estate. You say they should leave the family alone, the family should have settled years ago and given Anna what she was promised. It was proved Peirce Marshal forged papers and was suppose to be changing the will and adopting Daniel. That is why the whole thing won appeal. Anna was awarded 88 million by a jury. So as far as them just walking away from 12 years of work, and there is more than one attoney time here, I can not see it nor do I think they should. Anna’s estate should get what it is due.
The reason I said Howard felt sorry for Larry is because Howard seems like the kind of person who has a very kind heart and their were some things done to him by Anna that seem unfair. Not that I agree with the way he reacted but can imagine it was not easy for him.
I did not mean Peice to adopt
Daniel, It meant to read Peice was suppose to be preparing the papers.
MARYST:
I will dig to get the exact quotations to prove what I”m saying is true. However, Anna was given $8 million the year and some odd months she was married to him. You don’t think that was enough? You don’t think she married him for the money and security? The trial was astounding. Did you see it?? I was never a proponent or advocate for Anna to go after that estate. Did you know the Marshall family had offered to give her an additional $8 million that they didn’t have to give? And, you knew Anna turned it down. WHY? Because she wanted MORE money. Many of the things Anna stated at that trial were, in my opinion, not credible at all. The entire jury not only ruled against her, they decisively ruled that she should not have gotten a penny.
Although I am sympathetic to Anna Nicole and her plight regarding Larry Birkhead, for her (a then 26 year old) to marry an 89 year old demented man, was very immoral, in my opinion. Finally, here we are on this website saying how we should HONOR Anna’s will, well, what about J. Howard II’s will? I think we need to be fair-minded. Daniel is deceased. Anna is deceased. And, J. Howard Marshall’s son, E. Pierce Marshall, is deceased. In my opinion, enough is enough. There is no reason on God’s green earth why Dannielynn needs their money. In fact, most now believe it is “tainted” money.
I truly believe Howard will take an out-of-court settlement with “just enough” to pay his attorney costs and begin anew with his life. Do you really believe Anna would want that baby to have a great sum of that money NOW, after all that has happened? Something tells me she wouldn’t, as she ponders her life now (I hope) in purgatory…
Well I don’t believe in purgatory so can not agree on that. I believe in heaven and hell and think Anna is in heaven as I have heard her testify on the stand to believing in God. She may have been misguided but to say she is in purgatory…well I am not going to say any more because I am not God nor should I judge.
As far as the Marshall estate, Anna named her little girl Dannielynn Hope Marshall so yes I think she wants her baby to inherit the money. From what I understand and I am not saying I watched the whole trial or followed the whole story but I understand Anna won an appeal because Peirce forged papers. I know the father disinherited one son and Peirce was to get half of the estate with Anna getting the other half. There has to be a reason this has been in the courts for so long and has not be thrown out. So if you believe there will be an out of court settlement Howard will settle for just enough to pay attorney fees why don’t you believe he will go after money for Dannielynn? You either believe there is a case or you don’t? If Peirce would have followed directions as his father trusted him and did what he was ordered there would not be a problem. Peirce just did not want to respect his father’s wishes and deceived him. I don’t believe all of what I heard at that trial especially the driver, I think he was paid to say what he said. I think there was enough evidence to prove Anna was entitled to half of the estate, she was his wife. If she was a gold digger, so be it, she was his wife and he wanted her to have half he knew she was young and was suppose to have a long life after him. As it turns out, it was only a few years later and now she is with him. I think as different as Anna was she did love him. After all he was the first person who ever really cared and looked out for her. Even if it was a fatherly figure to her, she was his wife. Family shouldn’t have determined how he spent his money, Peirce should have honored his father.
Laura, I agree with Howard taking just enough to settle out of court, and face it, with what he has endured, or in some instances has chosen to endure, he more than deserves it.
I am not saying I don’t agree Howard should take the settlement for the attorney fees only just knowing the way he is it is my belief he will want to settle for Anna’s little girl too.
Actually after Anna past my first thought was he will finally be able to find a women who really valued him. But maybe the things Anna said in regards to him and the way she reacted to him on Larry King was an act. I hope Howard did have her love. Does not seem like he did though, she had a baby with another man.
I really wish he would just settle for his fees but he is working on a percentage so the more her estate makes the more he will make so I don’t know how that would work just to pay attorney fees.
Maryst,
My understanding is that Howard would get 6% of whatever the judgment is. If it’s 100M, then he’d get 6M. He should get something. He worked long and hard and I believe Anna would want him to be compensated. The Marshall money is no more tainted than any other money. I have no idea where a notion like that comes from I also agree with you about purgatory. There is no such thing. It’s Heaven or hell immediately.
Maryst, the Marshall family will, no doubt, “settle”, but they will not settle for an enormous sum, since he had his will done, and Anna was not part of it. He was very hurt by Anna toward the end of their life together. There was very damaging credible testimony by the maids that spoke. I found them very credible, and so did the jury. I will look to post more facts regarding the *only* trial she had. The upper Supreme Court only decided that her case could be “heard” at the Federal court level. The Supreme Court NEVER decided how much she would get, if she won. In fact, the 9th Circuit Court threw that $1/2 billion judment out, as the Judge was entirely out of line to award anything at all in a “Bankruptcy” proceeding. Come to find out, this Judge hated the Oil Industry, and that was his motive for hating the Marshall family.
Regardless, I have to disagree wholeheartedly that Dannielynn “deserves” anything. What’s wrong with Larry Birkhead supporting her? That’s what he wanted in the first place. He, as we all know, has finanacially benefitted by using the baby to gain money for himself, whether or not he “says” it’s in a trust. He can control that trust, as I understand. I would have to have proof otherwise, to be otherwise.
that is….to think otherwise…
Laura,
I agree with you that Larry should be the one supporting Dannielynn. That’s what good parents do. But, I believe that Howard will work as hard as he can to make sure she is financially secure. I just hope all works out well for everyone involved. It seems to be coming together bit by bit. I don’t think Howard is moping around doing nothing with himself. I believe he has picked himself up and is taking care of his business, whatever it is. One day he will find the happiness that I believe he so deserves.
Laura, I undestand what it meant when Howard argued in front of the Supreme court. I am wondering about the 88 million awarded to her, why didn’t the Marshall’s give her that. I am not so confident in the maids report because it would be to easy to pay them some money and also perspective.
I am really asking questions about all this, I have not studied the case.
It is very interesting it has gone this far in which makes me believe there is merit. O’quinn…he makes me think it to why else would he be there?
Who knows maybe the it was all a publicity stunt. Why not it got her career going again. I would think 8 million is a lot but Anna’s life style, it was not and Marshall provided her the life style, he got her the contract with guess didn’t he? It just seems fair if you are going to spoil a young lady to provide for her since she was so young.
Laura, you don’t have to start posting things that would hurt Anna, I want to see her estate win. I will agree with you okay.
I think so to EJ
What Dannilynn deserves is what Anna had at the time of her death. That money should be put in a trust until she is of legal age and has sound judgment on how to use it. Hopefully someone will instill that ability in her. It should not be necessary for that money to be touched until she is an adult, and if is placed into an account which grows and gains interest, dividends, when she is 18 or 20, with the right guidence, she should not need or want for anything.
During her childhood, it is Larry’s responsibility to support her. Obviously he has made plenty of money selling her pictures and his/her story to accomplish that, even after his attorney fees.
Howard Marshall paid 8 million dollars for the “luxury” of having Anna around (what time she was around) and there is nothing else the Marshall family owes Anna nor her relatives/children. Anna should have taken the 8 million dollar offer and ran with it, but greed does funny things to people. Any body who genuinly believes she loved Howard Marshall is not seeing the forest for the trees. She used him, he used her. Plain and simple. 8 million dollars was enough for that.
If Howard can get his legal fees from the Marshall family in order to settle, then I would like to see him settle it and not have this drama hanging over Dannilynn’s head the rest of her life. Someone somewhere needs to break that cycle.
maryst,
A lot of what we hear, and have ‘learned’ about Anna’s life, could be a ‘Publicity Stunt.’ We are not Hollywood ‘Insiders,’ at least, I know I’m not.
I don’t ‘know’ Virgie Arthur, Larry Birkhead, or Howard K. Stern, or any of their family members, and I didn’t ‘know’ Anna or Daniel.
The only thing I ‘know’ is what I saw, and how I felt, when Howard read his eulogy for Anna, and when he appeared to be crying his eyes out, and mourning the most.
I don’t really ‘know’ much else, except…the ‘media’ is making tons of money spinning tales and not telling the truth.
Amazed,
Do you know for sure, Marshall and Anna, did not love each other, or, are you making an assumption, that would prove only to be a hypothosis, a conclusion based on your opinion?
Amazed,
My grandmother was 17 years old when she married my grandfather who was 60!
They loved each other, and had 3 children, one of which, was my mom.
My grandfather lived to be almost 100, and on the anniversary of his death, on that exact date that following year, my grandmother passed. She was young, but, she missed him and loved him so much, she let herself go and died of what I know was a broken heart.
Dear Jane,
It seems we have wondered off the topic of discussing Anna’s Stepbrother.
In my opinion, it seems more than believable, that he could have been responsible, for Anna’s low self esteem.
Larry has supported himself since he was in high school. He is a college graduate (University of Louisville 1999) and he has maintained his own apartment, including during the years he and Anna were together.
Larry does not strike me as a slacker and or someone who wants anything handed to him. I am certain he plans to work and support Dannielynn. He has only had her for two weeks and he has stated that he wants to be with her for a few months and get his health back.
And Freida is certainly correct that the media outlets have made fortunes from this tragic story. For that reason, I think it is only fair and right that the parties not be criticized when they are paid for their stories. We want to know!
Howard said he is writing a book and it will be cathartic for him. And why not? He knows more than anyone. I don’t know what Larry could say that we don’t know but there will be a documentary of his story on Bravo, via the NBC contract.
Linda,
Is this a fact, Howard is writing a book? Where did you learn this, what is your source.
Also, Dear Jane, please correct my earlier comment,
My Grandparents had 4 children, including my mom!!!!
Amazing, I agree, tis true. I believe Howard will do the “right” thing and conduct himself with continued dignity and honor. The child may realize the great love affair her mother had someday was NOT with her own dad, but with Howard K. Stern.
MARYST:
This might peak your interest. It is a direct quote from E. Howard Marshall, II, now deceased:
“The public has learned what our family has known for many years, that Smith was cruel to my father and was never his wife in the traditional sense. She worked hard to avoid being with my father but managed to call him constantly demanding more and more money. My father told close associates that the marriage had been a mistake and I believe he would have ended it had he lived. My father’s wishes concerning our family business were clearly spelled out in six wills and seven trusts and in numerous conversations with a wide range of people who did not have a stake in the estate…”
There was a LOT of testimony to support the above. But, I just wanted to say one thing. Our US court system is a web of litigation, and I am totally against appeal after appeal after appeal.
Lastly, in 1982, years before Marshall met Anna Nicole, he transferred most of his property to a living trust, the terms of which were finalized just 2 weeks after he married her. The Courts ruled he was of sound mind, and Anna was excluded as a beneficiary from several of J. Howard’s wills left behind. If he was enough of sound mind to marry her, he was enough of sound mind to complete and update his own Will, agree?
What’s interesting also is that she married him in July 1994, and he became seriously ill just 6 months later. According to testimony, she was rarely around him during their marriage, and especially during his illness. However, whether she cared for the man or not, Anna had no real concrete proof of what she was saying in court.
Irregardless, I think I do have compassion for Anna Nicole, especially when we look at her mother and the horrendous background she came from. Howard represented her well, as her attorney. But, after Daniel died, my gut feeling has been that….Anna changed, and changed for the better she did. And, I believe that it was during this period of time that Anna fell deeply in love with Howard, after realizing it was HE who was always “there” for her, through Daniel’s death and all her tribulations……all along.
I believe she ‘woke up’ regarding Larry and rued the day she ever met him. It is even more unfortunate that she now had a child as a result.
Freida, your post about Howard #121, man is that so true. He really loved her didn’t he? How lucky was she to have his love, do you think she knew she was?
What you said about the media, true too. FYI I do base my opinion on what I heard Anna and Howard say
Linda, where did you hear about Howard writing a book?
Laura P, I hope you are right in your opinion about Anna, seems very logical. As far as Marshall, I don’t really know I just personally feel she was very young and he was the adult and he wanted to marry her and took her as his wife. She was young and naive, was not represented and should have been. The bottom line is I don’t know what Marshall,II statement served, but Anna was the fathers wife and should have been respected as such or he should not have married her and told her he was going to adopt her son. If he would have lived and divorced her the subject would be different but he died.
Linda, how do you know it is a “documentary” on Bravo?
April 28, 2007
New York Post
An insider tells us the network’s parent, NBC Universal, sealed a $1 million deal with Larry Birkhead shortly after Anna Nicole’s funeral, and that’s why it’s getting exclusives that end up on the network’s “Today” and “Access Hollywood” programs and on its Bravo channel.
A rep for Bravo confirmed to us last night: “NBC Universal has an exclusive contract with Larry Birkhead and we don’t discuss the terms of our deals.”
Laura P.,
What a shame, and who do we blame…the ‘Professional Old Man’ or Anna?
I blame the old man, Anna was a child
Frieda Re: #122
I am not making assumptions about the love, or rather lack of, between Howard Marshall and Anna, or at least the love from Anna to Howard Marshall. Perhaps Marshall did love her, but he was naive in thinking anything could ever come from it.
Read Laura P’s post #127. Check the internet, there is an abundance of information regarding the goings on in the relationship between Anna and Howard Marshall.
A person who loves another person does not treat them like Anna treated Howard Marshall.
As far as your Grand Parents’ relationship, I am quite sure some relationships with a great age difference workes out, but this was not the case with Anna and Howard Marshall. He was her ticket to whatever she wanted.
maryst,
I had hoped they really loved each other, but, I doubt that to be true.
That brilliant old man, married her.
He took advantage of a naive very pretty young lady. I don’t care if he did not like the way she treated him, what could he expect she was a kid. I almost look at that old man as a pedophilia. I would really be mad at my dad if he took advantage of a young lady with his money, I mean be reasonable, he used her with his money. If he was of sound mind to write his will then he was of sound mind to know what he was doing to that young girl was wrong. The way she treated him, how about the way he treated her? He did not even care about her enough to treat her with respect. He was how many years older? Anna should have lived how many more years then him and for him not to look out for her for the rest of her life when he could have, it is horrible.
But, Maryst, Marshall also wrote out one of his sons (J. Howard Marshall, III) from his Will, too? Are you saying we do not have the “right” to do that? I believe all of us have the legal right to name whomever we want in our Will. It happens all the time.
Besides, it was HIS money, not Anna’s. But, doesn’t it shock you that Anna received $6.7 million during the 14 months of marriage? Isn’t that incredible? Isn’t, wasn’t that enough?
Amazed,
He was her ticket, or was he wrong to marry her?
He was wealthy and well educated, and he ‘wanted’ her so much, he married her.
He set her up, with money and fame, and thought he could get away with it.
Did he, will he, get away with it without paying.
Dear Amazed,
You just hit the ball out of the park with a grand slam homerun. Thanks for treating everyone to a very well stated reality check on the airbrushed image of Anna and Howard that so many posters have of them. I agree completely that neither Anna, Howard, Larry or Dannielynn should pursue the Marshall fortune. Both of the principals in the marriage are dead and with such strong reasons to question the pre-marital motivations, show some integrity Howard and Larry and let the man’s family keep the inheritence within the family.
I’ve always been inclined to root for the underdog. I never regarded either Anna or Howard as underdogs or tragic victims of others, or the “good guys” when the legal battle for Dannielynn was first begun. I always saw them as the ones trying to game the system, manipulate the truth, evade any legal oversight and thumb their nose at the other side. Anna may not have been born into the best lineage but any female with her looks knows that doors start swinging open for you at an early age in life. She would hardly have been relegated to Walmart and fast-food chains. I keep reading “poor Anna”, “tragic Anna”. Who manages to live in Hollywood condos and a million dollar Bahamian home with people there to assist you in every way, all just because you have a great body, beautiful face and know how to use it to your advantage. I’m sure she wouldn’t have traded in her glamorous lifestyle to have had a more traditional childhood.
And use her looks she did, so successfully she had a TV show, got movie roles and was invited to multitudes of celebrity gatherings. How many other people without a high school education and no particular talent get nearly as far as she did in life? Anna may have had bad things happen to her along the way but until the tragic death of her son I see her life as one lucky break after another. I mean she was even getting a big paycheck from Trimspa and not even using it, from all reports at the time of her death. Anna knew how to work it and while I don’t blame her for making the most of what she had to offer, but neither she, nor Howard as her shrewd advisor deserve the wails and handwringing that is expressed so freely here.
I’m sorry she died so young but her lifestyle caught up with her. Howard would probably have been better off utilizing the law degree more practically rather than having put all his eggs in one basket.
they had a five year affair, my point is she was a kid when they meant. She was not represented, yes we have the right to do what ever to our children, she was his wife, that is the difference. We really do not have the right to do what ever to our spouse, they are protected. A husband just can’t write their wife out of their will. A spouse has rights. It would be like my husband got mad at me and decided to right me out of his will, I would have a legal right to object. When a man takes a wife it becomes her money too. Where do you get the 6.7 million? It he gave he that much money that would make my argument that much stronger.
I guess it is time for me to gracefully bow out, you guys win, Anna had a great life. I can not believe any one would think her life to be good, one problem after another. Air brushed life simply because they used legal maneuvers to overcome problems. Okay for an old man to take advantage of a young lady, blame the victim. Going to take the victims family for their every word when they have so much to gain by lying. Insult Howard for loving this girl. Some people choose to put all their eggs in one basket, it is called working exclusively, it is done every day.
Alison,
An Attorney At Law, is bound by an obligation to his client.
Representing a celebrity like Anna Nicole, would be a full-time job, in my humble opinion.
Someone had to have this job, it was Howard K. Stern.
He, I believe, has done the best job, he could do.
Also, maybe, he took his job to heart, after all, he is only human.
FRIEDA:
Good grief, listen, I’ll give you the fact if 2 people want to marry for “other” reasons, fine. He wanted to marry her. Whatever. She married him, whatever. But, here’s where I draw the line. This old fool had the legal right to write whomever he wished OUT OF HIS WILL. That’s that. Many people who had nothing to gain testified that he was of “sound mind”, and both the Judge and Jury agreed.
ALISON:
Of course, you’ve made some excellent points, but with all we know about the hounding and pestering of Anna by Birkhead just 3 1/2 weeks after her son died, with all the extenuating knowledge we have, and whether it was Anna’s comeuppance or not, what Birkhead did to this woman was blatantly immoral and extremely wrong. It drove her to her death indirectly. And, THAT’s where I draw the line and remain on the side of Howard K. Stern and Anna now deceased. She didn’t deserve that….NO MATTER WHAT she ever did. Now, though, I just hope that Howard does the right thing and lets the Marshall money settle out of court for a reasonable, undisclosed sum, enough I hope to pay his bills and to pay off Anna’s debts.
I hope we can agree on that much, at least. It’s not like Anna was married to him for 20 years, had children by him, was a great wife, and treated him good.
maryst,
Stand your ground, tell your truth.
Please don’t go away, we need people like you.
I am still reading I just have to take a break from this, it is really getting on my last nerve, sorry
Me too, maryst, me too!!!
Maryst, I don’t think Anna or Marshall were “victims”. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. Let’s just say she fell for an “image” of J. Howard Marshall, a fantasy of a younger version of him. Ok? But, you know the old adage, “Money buys sex”. It happens in Hollywood all the time. That is not to say that there aren’t a few couples that are genuine, but we all know that 99% of these marriages are not pure motives. You can’t tell me she would have even considered this man, if it weren’t for his money.
Still, let’s not argue about this, because we all pretty much agree that, no matter what, Anna was sorely mistreated during her last months of her life by Birkhead’s relentless pursuit to take her baby away from her, and by the manipulation of the media by him and his attorney.
It is also absurd to think Marshall’s family had much to gain which was rightfully theirs to begin with!
I can’t believe I can not stop, I did get my house cleaned today.
I have to get this off my mind, I will agree Anna bought a lot of the problems on herself, we create our world, but look what she came from, it is what she knew and never learned how to change it. Look at the way her mother acts.
Alison,
You said this, “I’m sure she wouldn’t have traded in her glamorous lifestyle to have had a more traditional childhood.”
Are you so sure? I am not.
Sorry to interrupt.
I would like to put this thought out there.
Anna is dead. Anna suffered a great deal. It can be argued that some of the suffering she brought on herself, but isn’t that really beside the point? She was, for all her bravado, charm, and sex appeal, a woman who had some dark secrets and a lot of pain.
Must we treat her badly and assign the poorest of motives to her even in death, especially when those theoretical motives belie her own words on the subject?
I am having difficulty understanding why so many people think Anna should have been happy with the money her late husband gave her.
A spouse is entitled to his/her half of the money, will or no will. Because of the age difference, it is made to seem like Anna should have been happy to take whatever crumbs Pierce Marshall wanted to throw her way. It was the late Marshall’s decision to marry Anna Nicole and Anna greatly appreciated how he treated and respected her and also how caring Marshall was toward Daniel.
Relatives of the deceased have no right to decide on the “weight” of the love between spouses based on their perception due to age difference. Spouses of the same age may never experience the love and respect those two had for each other. Furthermore, when Marshall was dying, his family prevented Anna, his wife, from being with him. For that reason alone, there should be punitive damages for the pain and suffering Marshall’s family inflicted upon Anna and the late Marshall! I can imagine the late Marshall wondering why the wife HE married because HE chose to, was not with him during his last hours.
Isabel,
I’m not sure how it works in Texas, but in Minnesota, will or no will, a legal spouse cannot be disinherited, and even a prenuptial agreement allowing for disinheritance can be successfully fought.
Jane, I did not mean to sound negative about Anna, I understand she is dead and would not talk bad about the dead. After I post I was sorry I said she bought any thing on herself. I adored the girl and it came off wrong. I was trying to make a point that some of her circumstances came from her upbringing, please accept my apology.
Maryst, actually I hadn’t even seen your post when I posted mine. I was talking about all the speculations on the extent of Anna’s feelings for J. Howard.
Isabel, could they have done that to point the finger at her for being a bad wife?
so they could use it against her?
I am not saying she was a bad wife just that they wanted it to be perceived that way
Maryst, as I recall from the court documents (they are on smokinggun.com) there was quite a bit of talk about security guards hired by Pierce and Anna’s visits being severely limited. What I don’t recall right now is Pierce Marshall’s reply to these allegations.
#110 Laura P.
I think perhaps you have not read the document from the Supreme court about how Pierce Marshall manipulated and forged documents and deceived his father about Anna Nicole being provided for.
I’m sorry I can not point you right to that part but the document can be read here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/pdf/annanicole.pdf
Actually, it starts on page 29 of 79 entitled “tortious interference”.
Nice save, QV!
Thanks.
Dear Laura P.,
You said something about Marshall, “that old fool.”
He was no fool, believe me, Marshalls and Hefners, are not foolish.
They protect themselves, and their money, at all cost.
Isabel, I don’t think $6.7 million is “crumbs”. Frieda, I believe you are right. I do think Anna would have traded all that glamour in for a good childhood, in a heartbeat, and oh, let’s throw in a good mom, too! But, regarding whether we think a woman “deserves” such a fortune or not, the only Jury who heard the entire case ruled against Anna. I saw some of the jurors interviewed on TV, and I think they were right.
I think she should have settled for the additional $8 million they had offered her before going to court. But, she didn’t. How ANYONE on this board could think one deserves, legally or not, MORE than that after 14 months of a marriage, especially in this situation, is beyond me….$8 million invested wisely would have been a fortune for anyone, and we all know that. Instead, Anna continued to fight for “more’.
Now, I agree with you Jane. She brought on a lot of this on herself, and since this is a forum of independent thoughts, I think I can say what I want respectfully, of course. I do not disparage Anna Nicole….at all.
I DO think she made mistakes, and I believe a LOT of her decisions were as a result of a terrible upbringing with misconceived ideas about men as one outcome. Taking the money out of this equation would be the BEST thing, in my humble opinion. I believe in my heart of hearts that Howard will settle out of court with the Marshall family, but if he pursues and pesters the Marshall family, along with Larry, for a huge settlement without justification, then, I will not support Howard any longer. It seems to me he would have had *enough* of all this insane greed.
And, THAT is what it amounts to—in the end. Only Howard knows what they were going to do after Daniel died, but I choose to believe that Anna had changed, and that they had finally both lost the urge to chase after something not all that important anymore…
I have written countless letters to the Media, to the Police Department heads, and I’ve spoken with many people on his behalf. I will continue for I have NEVER seen anyone so maligned as this man was by the insatiable, corrupt Media. But, I do have my own beliefs, as everyone here.
I may have my own observations of the life of Anna Nicole, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have compassion about her and her baby. Birkhead has the opportunity to change himself now. I am waiting to see what he does…too.
To say things that are unflattering but true is not Anna bashing. I was a regular viewer of her show and loved her wackyness, her impulsiveness and her completely off-beat life. With a grown son and nobody being hurt by her behavior, I wasn’t even put off by the occasional “over-medication” the show sometimes displayed. I don’t find anything amusing or acceptable when someone has a known drug dependency while carrying a fetus. And that’s whether it’s Anna or a poor, inner city crackhead with no real options. Anna went to the Bahamas to avoid being held accountable for her drug use and potentially having her baby taken away, even though she had every available means to seek private help under the most optimal conditions-for the sake of her baby. Not to appease Larry, but to protect her unborn child. I know a drug abuser loses sight of priorities which is why I knew that Howard never thought he was the baby’s father. No intelligent, caring man (unless also in the same boat) would have stood by and watched Anna jeopardize HIS own flesh and blood. Again, they had options and CHOSE to shield her from having to face her problem and its possible legal consequences. Thankfully it appears at this stage of her life that Dannielynn is not impaired by all of the pharmaceuticals that she absorbed, but nobody can say for sure. To pull out the false assertion that Anna is being unfairly pilloried in death is just a rationale to shut down any real unpleasant discussion of her sometimes shameful behaviors. It’s akin to saying if you don’t support the Iraq War you’re either unpatriotic or not supportive of the troops. And as far as whether Anna would have chosen to trade in her lifestyle to have had more normal childhood, someone suggested that she may very well have. You could be right but at any time in her life Anna could have stopped the merry-go-round, gotten off, stopped dying her hair platinum blond and going for the Marilyn look, returned to school and gotten a job like the rest of us. Nobody forced her to date older wealthy men or young paparazzis.
Dear Laura P.,
Pierce Marshall, is very perplexing.
Why does it seem, he had no heart?
Was he not a favored son?
I never knew this story, his story, now I need to backtrack.
I hope Howard K. Stern is writing a book, dispelling all the myths.
The public, me, and Dannilyn want to know someday, about all the truth,
about Anna, about the mother that was more than beautiful, the one that truly cared.
I have it from a very reliable source that there was not an 8M dollar offer, but a 2M one, which would not have even taken care of the legal expenses –that’s not attorney’s fees, but actual costs incurred.
Laura P, is it a matter of greed or what was promised to Anna by her husband? Is it principal? I don’t really think 8 million is the same to a celebrity as it is to us. How much was she making with the guess contract. How much did he give her to spend? This was more than a 14 month relationship, it was a 5 year relationship and the point I keep coming back to is she was his wife.
Alison,
I wish I could count on you to tell me all the truth, but I doubt you know it all.
In fact, I doubt you know, more than me.
Plus she was not asking for all, she was asking for half. It does not matter how much, the point is half of the estate should have gone to the wife as a manner of principal.
Dear Commenters,
I’m not one to gamble, or bet, I don’t believe in luck, but know ‘it’ happens.
But, I do have a very strong belief in ultimate justice, and the will, and the truth.
Hopefully, this story of Anna, will have a good ending, and Dannielynn will know all the truth, and love her mother had.
Anna, was Vickie, and she was more than beautiful.
Alison, I think the point is we are not suppose to talk bad about the dead, it has been a part of who we are as decent human beings.
As far as the meds. Anna was on all we know is she was on dr. perscribed methodone which the medical people say is safe. It seems to be true because DL seems fine.
There are situations where love ones can not stop an abuser when they are pregnant, but we really do not know all of Anna’s medical conditions.
I’m sorry, Maryst, I don’t know where you’re coming from. I come from humble beginnings like Anna Nicole, too. The only difference is that I grew up with integrity and a sense of right versus wrong. I divorced a man and could have taken him to court for the appreciation of his California home, but I didn’t. Why didn’t I? Would the law have sided with me? YES. But, I didn’t because I had only been married to him 4 years, and the housing market hadn’t appreciated significantly, so I decided to just let him replace my furniture that I’d sold.
And, btw, I’ll NEVER forget this female attorney I went to in the Bay Area. She had 2 business cards….1 had fire flames on it and read “Bitch from Hell”, and the other one was a normal card. I mean, I went home and talked things over with Tom, and we both agreed we could do this ourselves. Anna’s boy was not Marshall’s. It was a similar situation, but I never got $6.7 million to spend in the 14 months I was married to him either. Why isn’t/ wasn’t that enough?
JANE:
All I can say is this. Perhaps $2 million was the amount, but I would be willing to be my bank account that Howard could have gotten a higher settlement, if they had tried. This website, I’ve always thought, is a website where we use our common sense. We have exceptional people who have a sense of integrity, and a sense of what is the right thing to do. I hope Howard will settle this and put it behind him. I do want him to have enough money to “pay the bills”, and I truly believe if he works with Mrs. Marshall, he will be able to do this out of court.
Right now, my foremost concern is the Inquest and not the money.
Thanks QV, I knew he got caugt forging papers but did not know how to provide the source.
Why should death absolve anyone from fair criticism of our behavior in life? Are we all entitled to be idealized just because we’re not around to respond? We are what we are, warts and all, dead or alive.
Alison,
Those that have gone before us must be respected.
We all except the same fate.
Laura P.,
You seem most righteous.
Dear Jane,
Believing in good things, as I do, I appreciate your site, and feel my comments being posted, are a priviledge granted, not a right.
Alison, there is a difference, IMO, between “fair criticism” and cruel speculation. Anna is not here to defend herself. Her life is over. Criticize it? Okay. Drag it through the mud? No. Not here.
Laura, I have spoken with a party involved in the Marshall litigation. It was not up to Howard to settle — it was up to Anna. The Marshalls offered $2M and would not budge. It would not cover, as I said, the legal costs. She said no, and chose to move forward.
Comments do get caught in the filters from time to time, and I’m not sure what the criteria is. The first comment a poster makes is always held in bay. After that, all posts should show up, but often if they’re done on proxy, or some other thing, they do not and have to be retrieved. I check those folders whenever I am on site.
As for Howard writing a book, this is the only site that I have ever seen. But I have no idea if it’s credible enough for me to believe.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1536410_20036875,00.html
(the bottom)
Stern will remain in the Bahamas and is expected to write a book about his life with Smith. “It will be a cathartic experience for him,” says a source.
As for Pierce Marshall, even his brother has sued him. The will says everything goes to Pierce only, not to Anna, not to the other son. It’s false, that’s what they insist.
Laura P, my circumstances are different from what you describe as yours. AS far as my opinion about Marshall is he can afforded to leave Anna well off. It sounds like your situation was there was nothing there. Anna situation is very different than most of us I am pretty sure. I just think as a manner of principal she is entitled to the money due to Marshall was as rich as he is and every one will have plenty of money. I think as his wife, in a relationship for five years, was promised half she should get it. It is the way it works in the world of money. I could go on about this but I don’t think you will ever understand my point so let’s keep friends and agree to disagree on this manner.
Allison, I was taught not to speak ill of the dead, I have very strong values and extremely loyal, so I will not talk ill of the dead unless it was necessary.
I really liked Anna, but I realize there is not one of us with out fault. And I have not heard one person who knew her personally speak ill of her all I ever hear from her friends is she was kind, child like.
Yoyogi, thank you so much for the link to people, they are usually reliable, I hope he does it will be the first book I bought in a long time
Jane,
I hope you don’t think I’ve said anything that was cruel speculation about Anna. If so, I’d be curious as to what it was.
Alison maybe I misunderstood your post, you are saying we are what we are warts and all and that is ok? but i think when a person is not longer here to defend them self we need to be more careful what we say about them maybe that is why we don’t speak ill of the dead
Alison, I was addressing your fair criticism comment, which I essentially agree with — and I have more than a little experience with what you said about people being idealized after death — so I absolutely understood your point.
My point about cruel speculation has to do with other posts that assume how Anna felt about J. Howard — what her emotions and motives were at the time, etc. She told the world, many times over, how she felt about him, in her own words. To deny those words, and to essentially call her a liar, is something I consider cruel speculation.
New post above addresses the Howard/book rumor.
“Amazed” - your last post got caught in the spam filter. Yes, your earlier post was one of those I was referring to that I found to be on the mean side of speculation. You are welcome to post here, even if you disagree with me. However, I don’t wish this site to deteriorate into a mini-TMZ, and will always encourage those who are in an online argument to not let it get to the point of flaming.
I’m actually sorry now that I interrupted. I seem to have caused more argument. Sorry, people.
But while I’m here. . .I’d like to ask everyone if they really believe that their life experience should be used as the diagram for another. What I mean by this is — oftentimes I hear people say things like (this or that thing) happened to me, too, but I didn’t (turn out like her/him, turn to drugs, use it for an excuse, let it get me down, etc). Is this a fair means of judging another?
On today’s court tv website 5/15, on page 26 of comments (and also previous few pages), a person identified as “okidoki” is trying to contact “butterfly” as they have information on Larry Jenkins. Sounded like they know him. Isn’t there someone identifed as “butterfly” who comments on this website and also QV’s?
M. Joyce, I forwarded your post to butterfly’s e-mail address.
Good evening everyone. I see that there is a very lively debate going on.
Since none of us were there, all we have is Anna’s voice to let us know how she felt about her marriage to J. Howard Marshall. Anna was the first to say she loved him but more as a father figure. Even Virgie Arthur testified under oath what a good man he was and that he promised to look after Anna for life.
If a settlement offer had been made by the Marshall estate for $2 million, any of the attorneys would have considered that a joke. Bear in mind that this is a case that has been involved in litigation for 10 years and that amount would not even cover the document paper used. The small army of attorneys that are always involved in any long running case would require payment and I doubt if there would be any to credit to their account. We are talking about an incredible number of billable hours throughout various jurisdictions.
As far as how Anna treated J. Howard Marshall, none of us were there and nobody EVER knows what goes on inside another person’s marriage. Since he was declared to be of sound mind and knew Anna for a few years before he married her, he was well aware of what he was getting into. It is not for us to cast judgement on their relationship any more than we would want someone to cast judgement on our relationship.
I remember seeing Anna being interviewed by Larry King. Howard was there and stayed mostly quiet. Anna was talking about J. Howard Marshall and describing how she was treated by the Marshall family. She wanted very much to be with her husband but was not allowed and was prevented from being with her husband when he was dying.
P.S. Anna also said, on another occasion, that Marshall never cared what anyone said about her. She said J. Howard Marshall was respectful toward her, regardless of what mean things people said about her.
While I support Anna Nicole and her life and love Howard…. in this last phase of her life, I hope Jane you’re not implying that I am being disrespectful in my observations. I have compassion for Anna, but it doesn’t mean what she did was always right. I have compassion also for the Marshall family who suffered, too, as a result of J. Howard’s philandering habits and poor choices. No matter what, I will never be able to justify any woman or man living with someone for 14 months and them attempting to garnish one-half of their spouse’s life long, hard worked for–fortune. I don’t care if a particular judge agrees, or not. It just isn’t right, and I think, deep down, on some level, Anna knew that. But I also believe, or want to believe that Anna changed after Daniel died, and became more compassionate herself.
I have seen it written some where that Anna refused several marriage proposals fromJ.Howard Marshal. Anna said she wanted to prove she could be successful on her own, that way people could not say she married him as a meal ticket. There are also some entries in her diaries where she says that she loves him. Her love for Mr. Marshal may have not been the love of two twenty year olds. that does not mean it was not a true love an honest love.
Regina; I am sorry if we chased you away. I know you were defending your family,all families should be so fortunate. I was reading the comments and it must have been very difficult. Unfortunately we had you out numbered with questions coming at you from all directions. The very first answer you gave was that your family was trying to protect the children. I can think of no better reason for staying under the wire, your children are fortunate.
Hi, I am new here. I like the format and I very much like the classy posts here. I was banned from CTV for saying the one-sided rules were unfair. I like to discuss the case, but I like to be civil and have others the same. I am enjoying the discussion here.
For the record, I am a LB supporter. I think he has done the best he could in a situation he should never have allowed himself to be in, except the saving grace has been his daughter who would not be here if it werent for the dumb mistakes. I used to despise HKS, but have softened somewhat towards him, he has done the right thing by the baby, and I like that he and LB are doing things in HER best interest. I do NOT like VA. Which amazes me, considering I started this whole mess thinking she was pure as the driven snow. The minute I saw her on the stand, she lost credibility, and it has been a downhill slide since. I respect that she is ANSs mother, and that is the extent of it. She is entitled to be treated with dignity because she is a human being, but over and above that, not a chance.
I am also wondering why everyone is hung up on the “settlement” money and how/why it would come from JHMs estate. My understanding is that this money she is entitled to is in effect retribution ordered by a judge for Pierce Marshall’s meddling in her bankruptcy trial, when he jumped in and accused her of slander, thereby opening himself up to speculation by the judge about his actions/intent. Am I way off base here?
Amazed post #100
My posts are my opinions, my judgements are from what i see a person do and from what I hear a person say. As to you stating that my posts are the most cruel on this site,,,,I ask you “have you read every post on this site”?
cause if you have I think you would change your opinion. Also if you read my post #52 i stated what can’t be disputed by VA appearances on TV, I was also very understanding to Regina’s love for VA.
After seeing and hearing an innocent man named HKS be put thru the mud by VA(who by the way states that she didn’t even know him) and many others I get frustrated when someone comes on this site and is all for VA,,, BUT after further review of myself I posted an apology to REGINA (#99) and expressed how thankful I am that she posted and I hope she continues to do so. I’m sorry if YOU feel I was being curt, my frustration at the injustice can get the best of me at times.
1TruePatriot, Welcome! I believe there are a number of people who previously supported VA, even after Anna’s allegations, who turned the corner after various legal maneuvers and appearances.
Everyone else — Please, I don’t wish anyone to feel personally responsible for interview about VA not happening. The poster came to this site knowing it was asking some pretty tough questions, and she simply chose to decline to take it further. That was her right, just as it was our right to ask. There are no hard feelings from me toward either the poster or the contributors here.
Lynda, my point is not about the relationship so much, as it is about anyone’s right to an estate, when there is no written documentation or a written will to prove that is what was desired by the deceased. Essentially, it was Anna’s word against the Marshall family. The jury found her testimony to be incredible. The judge who awarded her $88 million was found to be prejudiced against E. Pierce Marshall & the oil industry, according to the articles I read. In addition, that judgment was overturned by the 9th Circuit Court due to the fact the Judge had acted inappropriately and was never supposed to rule in the first place. There is no judgment at this point in time. Noone knows if LB or Howard will pursue it, or not. Right now, the concern is the Will and the Inquest for Daniel Smith.
1TruePatriot, there are somewhat varying opinions on this website, but most people here are not huge fans of LB. From my observation, we support LB within the context of Howard choosing to support him. There is bad blood, so to speak, regarding Birkhead’s history around ANS. The entire story has not come out yet, but I’m sure there will be quite a few surprises.
Jane, I am so glad you are enlightening some of these commentors to their web-site behavior. I am so tired of listening to Alison, Amazed, etc. Why do people always want to believe the worst about someone, we all have faults, except for the Grace of God, there go I. I have always loved Anna Nicole unconditionally. I started following her when she was with Playboy/Guess. I had always heard she was abused emotionally, physically and sexually as a child; now I know this is true and I can understand better why her life was like it was. I really believe she had found true love with Howard and realized that he was the only one in her life that loved her unconditionally and I truly believe she felt the same way toward him. May God give Howard patience, comfort, peace, joy, hope and someday another love.
All over the media, many people insist that Larry is the one who should be handling Anna’s estate and that Larry is the one entitled to Anna’s property “for” Dannielynn. This case has so affected everyone to the point where people are out of touch with reality.
Had it been anyone else not famous, no one would have felt this way. An unmarried person’s FORMER boyfriend would never have been considered to be entitled to anything. Somehow, Larry has been assigned special powers and he seems to be climbing higher and higher in his throne. Worse yet, he probably already believes he is so entitled and as a result Dannielynn is being placed in danger by having her beautiful face plastered all over the tabloids.
I hope the Bahamas court has the sense to realize the baby would be safer with Howard and returns the baby to Howard until Larry grows up. After seeing how Dannielynn has been paraded all over, and knowing that the Bahamas court has no control over the baby once in the US, the court should order that Dannielynn remain in the Bahamas with Howard until Larry grows up.
As for Virgie, she must visit with the baby under the watchful eyes of a court-appointed person. Since Virgie bragged of having kissed Dannielynn all over her face and lips, she must be taught that it is unsanitary to kiss the baby on the lips. If anyone had kissed my baby like that, I would have gone balistic and kept her away from my baby.
Isabel, you’re so funny (about the kissing)! Anyway, you said:
“I hope the Bahamas court has the sense to realize the baby would be safer with Howard and returns the baby to Howard until Larry grows up.”
THAT was a very interesting way of putting it, but it does, indeed, put things into perspective. I think Howard is just trying to manage things as best he can. He is completely aware of the bias from the Media, and YOU are completely right about if this were anybody else’s EX-boyfriend, he wouldn’t get a red cent. IF Virgie Arthur had had a good relationship with Anna, I think I’d want my mother to manage the money for my daughter, wouldn’t you? Being a good mother, she would have been the “best” one to make decisions on how her daughter’s money would have been spent regarding the baby. Certainly, LB should have NO CONTROL over the estate, and NO DECISION-MAKING AUTHORITY over any money or assets.
If life were fair, a ‘good’ mother would either rent Anna’s house out or decide to sell her assets and put the money in the baby’s trust for HER, but it is becoming more and more apparent that Birkhead is catapulting UP to the status of HUSBAND, instead of EX-boyfriend, and THAT really bothers me!
Finally, if Birkhead wanted the baby, he can have her, and he can raise her on his OWN dime….is how I feel. The only money I would authorize out of Anna’s money would be money to pay for any bodyguards, and that would be only until they no longer needed them (after things die down). Larry can pay for the baby’s clothes out of his own pocket. He’s the dad. Let HIM take RESPONSIBILITY.
Laura,
I think Larry will have to support this baby. Even though she will have a trust, he can’t just dig in when he gets ready. I don’t think he has a lot of power at all. The only thing he has is Dannielynn and whatever money he has made for himself. He has no control over Anna’s estate.
I *hope* you are right. It seems to me he will have to go through the “Executor” to gain access to any monies of Anna’s, but Howard has been extremely generous, if it’s true he’s allowing LB to stay at Anna’s California home. I don’t think I’d have been as generous. Perhaps, there is a reason for that, but I hope LB will have to support the baby with 99% of his own doggone money. He wanted the baby. Now, he can have the financial responsibility just like all the rest of us, imo. I don’t think Anna’s money should pay for his babysitters, or a full-time ‘au pair’. That money is Anna’s and should be managed as an investment by Howard, UNTIL her baby reaches a legal age, usually 21.
Laura,
I agree. I think Howard is generous and loves Dannielynn very much, but he isn’t stupid. I read on another site that someone said that Anna would want Dannielynn to live a lavish lifestyle, with body guards, nannies, etc. I don’t totally agree with all of that. You have to be careful what you wish for. To sum it all up, I just hope the baby can live the happiest and safest life possible.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this all plays out. Once the weight of the Inquest is over, then, a lot may happen for Howard. Who knows…he has certainly gotten the shaft in all this, and SO Anna has been disrespected by the voracious support of the Media for Birhead, not to mention the disrespect of Anna’s wishes and last will and testament she made.
LAURA P: I realise you have very strong feelings about LB.
HKS hopes with the will in probate that he will remain executor. HKS has also petitioned the court to be named (I forget the word) so he can pursue different legal issues that are out standing for ANS estate. LB has partitioned to given guardianship of DL. This was agreed upon by both parties.( Found in Art Harris) I would hope that I would be as supportive as possible to my grandchildrens,fathers. if they were ever in such a position. Asking LB to not accept any financial gain from photographs is ridiculous, if they are worth money then all the more power to him. I would hope that DL is living in her mothers house,dosn’t she deserve to kept as comfortable and secure as possible. If LB does not get ahead of the photographers, they will be camped on his gate forever, preemptive strike. I think some people are losing site of the fact that every time you say LB shouldn’t get something or he doesn’t deserve something you are depriving DL of those things. Would you deprive your own children a beautiful home, the best security, the best education. NO! We were all first time parents at one time, some of us younger than others, some of us I’m sure made mistakes, my mother Say’s she got it close to right around #5 or 6 then you cross your fingers. SORRY ABOUT THE RAMBLING.
You are all right he is the DAD, and whether some of like or not he will always be the DAD. I believe that had LB and ANS married some of us would still believe he should be denied anything. That is fine, that is your opinion. If HKS is to remain executor, he will be responsible for any thing dealing with the estate, only as far as disposing of debts, or collecting anything owed the estate. He would then be responsible to see that anything left in the estate was delivered to the proper beneficiary. In this case a minor child DL, it would be placed in trust, over seen by a financial group of some kind. It would more than likely be used by her guardian ( DAD ) for her benefit. That in my experience, is the job of executor.
Here I go again,LARRY BIRKHEAD is not just an ex-boyfriend. He is the FATHER of DANNIELYNN HOPE MARSHAL BIRKHEAD. That will not change. You are saying if it were you, that you would rather have yor mother in his place. I am sure ANNA”S mother VERGIE ARTHUR, would agree with you. Hopefully that will never happen.
Lynda,
Howard’s attorney said last night that the court has already appointed him “Special Administrator” of the estate, which is temporary until they can appoint him executor. So, he has the power now to take care of business.
Lynda,
If Larry is going to use Dannielynn’s money for her benefit, what is he going to contribute?
#186:My Mother’s Daughter; You have said exactely what I was thinking but couldn’t get it out. Happens to me alot.
EJ THANKS: That was so far back on my tongue I never would have found it. I would hope that the responsibility of a beautiful child like Danielyn, would inspire him to be the best father that he can be. I have no idea what his life style has been like in the past. I do know it will take more than 70 or 80,000.00 $ dollars to care for Danielyn the way she should be. We can say that should be enough, that it should be on him to do all. He wanted a child so get to it. That is not realistic, Danielyn is not just any child, she is the child of a celebrity. Things did not happen the way ANS and LB planned,that is no reason for Danielyn to go with out until things can be sorted out. LB hopefully will have someone to help him back into some business. I have no idea of hand what his education is,except it is University.
Lynda, while I agree with some of your statements, I didn’t particularly like the one about ” Dannielynn is not just any child”. We as parents don’t think our children are just any children, they are all special and precious. What did Anna and Larry plan?
Laura,
Amen!
Sorry EJ: that was a very poor choice of words. I am a mother and grandmother, and I like everyone else thinks that my brood are the best of everything. I have no idea what ANS and LB had planned, anything can be planned during pillow talk, whether it was true or not, for DL I would like think it was something good, at least in the begining. Are you a grandmother?
LAURA P: You are right , we had this discussion before, I think I said then that you probably have back ground knowledge that I don’t. ANS may have had all the reason in the world to hate LB. I have not read e-mails people talk about. I also said between LB and his charming lawyer Ms Opri,attacking Anna at every turn, at what has to be the lowest point in any mothers life, was probably more than Anna could bear,we will never know. You are right LB was not ANS husband, he never will be. BUT he is still the father, and he always will be. My mind is very open, I base my feelings for LB on what I see Howard doing, he is the one that lost his whole family. If he can see through his pain and grief to deal with LB the way he has been, I can’t do any less. Sometimes it feels like I knew Anna and Daniel, because of The Anna Show.,but I didn’t. Unfortunately they are no longer with us, it is Dannielynn who is still here. What she needs is a lot of love like every child. She also needs those closest to her, to be on the same page, she needs those people to be forgiving, that is how she knows she is loved and protected. Remember LB had to fork over $600,000. to every ones favorite media lawyer Ms. Opri.
I have no idea what happened to my last post. I answered you, Lynda, and suffice it to say I just don’t know where to begin. Wrong is WRONG, and Larry’s behavior has been outrageous! I don’t know what he will choose to do going forward, but I’m not in the mood to just throw unconditional support to someone I don’t even respect in the first place!
I base ALL my observations and opinions on FACTS only. We can agree to disagree, but in order for me to ever change my mind, I have to have actual facts to support that change!
General Reminder: Debate the issues, not other posters. Personalized comments that are hurtful toward another will be removed. Thank you.
And, as far as being forgiving, I don’t know what conversations have transpired between LB and Howard. IF Larry has asked Howard for his forgiveness, he can be the one to forgive, and that is and would be fine with me. I wouldn’t be happier!
But, it has to come from Larry to Howard. Otherwise, Howard is just “getting along” as best he can FOR THE SAKE of Anna’s child.
I”M SORRY JANE I DON”T MEAN TO SAY THINGS OUT OF PLACE. I AM GLAD WE HAVE YOU TO HELP US TOW THE LINE. YOU ARE RIGHT IT WOULD BE ALL TO EASY TO BECOME A MINI-TMZ. THAT WOULD SERVE NO PURPOSE. I WILL TRY HARDER TO CHOOSE MY WORDS.
No need for an apology, Lynda. It’s just a general reminder I put out there before things get too heated.
There’s an old poem, I think by Rielke, that says “love brings up everything unlike itself.” That’s true for stories and news as well. We tend to feel passionately because on some level we’re empathetic to this or that person or viewpoint. It stirs something in us personally, and we want to share the passion that creates in us with others. It’s really a wonderful process. It’s also prone to defense though, and all the heat that may bring.
I appreciate the passion and force of opinion and fact that everyone brings to this board.
Laura P. You know more background than I do. I check every day to catch interviews but I still seem to miss almost every one. I have had my laptop for about 3 mos. My 4yr old grandson is more literate than I am. I think sometimes I would like to read more about past happenings,then I think it would really not do any good. I found It didn’t matter how much garbage I heard about HKS it didn’t change my opinion at all. Do you think they could really get along without Dannielynn sensing some strain, Even very young children are very perceptive.
Lynda, why are you beating yourself up? You’re VERY literate and well-spoken, and you bring much to this board. I appreciate you as do many other posters!
And you know what? Six people could comb through the same old documents and each would probably walk away with a slightly different perception, even if they agree on the essential facts. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
I’m not really beating myself up. I try to acknowledge the fact someone may have more information than I do. I do usually manage to stick to my guns when I think it is necessary. I also respect the fact that I am in someone else’s home, so to speak……………………Thank you!
Education is needed in my corner: What is the meaning of LOL and IMO? Thank you.
Thank you, Lynda.
Isabel, LOL = laughing out loud and IMO = in my opinion. Sometimes it will be IMHO, in my honest opinion.
Isabel: I wish I knew, my grandchildren think it is totally hilarious, when I ask questions.
Lynda, if you want, I’ll talk to you via email. Jane can give you my email address. Or, you can dig inside the posts at this website and find a lot of information, too. I think you should be well-informed by then! Thanks.
I am truly impressed by the posts and varying opinions. We all cannot be anilla so to speak, and each is entitled to his/her opinion.
Regarding the will. The reason behind the delay is that there was no death certificate and it cannot be filed for probate without that document. So Ron Rale and Howard filed a petition for a letter of administration. I do not know if it has been granted, but that means that Howard will be appointed by the court to be executor of the will. This is not a decisiion made by LB. If LB and VA will leave these guys alone they will do an admirable job. Probably save the estate a lot of money. They above all have the iniside track on ANS’ wishes and financial status. ANS’s assets are very small and after they start paying off the debts, they will be even smaller. As she once said, it takes lots of money being Anna. Tha LA house is carrying a $1.1M mortgage. It is supossedly worth $1.8M. It just might be worth more since it belonged to her. There is a possibility that it will have to be disposed of to pay off the debts. There is a four-judge panel in the Registrar’s office. Any of that money has two sides - debit and credit and they must balance out exactly, so there isn’t going to be any dipping into any money that isn’t okayed through the court. It appears to me that LB has caught the brass ring and is fearful it may slip out of his hands. This new life style has been an easy one to become accustomed to, wouldn’t you agree. In my view, there should be a bit of doubt hanging over LB. make no mistake, he knows his way around a court room. Ask Ashley Judd. They went a round or two, and she lost and had to pay a settlement to him. I do not know what the lawsuit was about. So he isn’t exactly the fair haired schoolboy he tried to perceive at the hearing in FL.
As for Daniel: HKS has every right to be concerned about the inquest. You might say his future rides on the outcome. the findings of the jury doesn’t have to be unanimous. If they decide there was foul play re DS’ death, they might be going home, he’ll be going to jail. It’s amazing to me that someone has not come forward on Daniel’s behalf. That sleazy PI is probably going to be a witness. I cannot see Daniel seeking out the services of this man to investigate his mother’s friends, or confiding in anyone regarding his mother’s private life.
I don’t think Howard is asleep at the switch. He has so much on his plate to deal with, but he’s been through his baptism of iire in his association with ANS lo these many years, so he is probably taking it in stride.
I hope I haen’t intruded where I don’t belong, but I check out the posts daily and couldn’t resist. If I am poking in where I don’t belong, lemme know and I’ll go quietly. Miss Jane, you sure are keeping this train on the track, IMO!!!
annpat,
welcome, i enjoyed reading your post and i hope you’ll share again.
Thanx, Squeaker, for the nice welcome to the group. You’ll be hearing more from me, I am sure. I’m a night person and while away the hours trying to keep up with this sad story. To think it has been such a short time ago, Howard and Anna were looking forward to the arrival of the baby, their pending wedding; Anna seemed to be recovering from the loss of Daniel and making an attempt to get on with a new life in that island paradise. What a place to recover. Then a storm starts to brew and now just look around at the grief and sorrow that has happened to their lives. howard is most assuredly an exceptional person to endure everything that has happened to him. it has ben a nightmare for him and all of their friends as well. Anna seemed to surround herself with loyal friends, with the exception of those two from SC. Now the plot thickens. Through our old buddy, Larry, she was hooked up with those two characters. I cannot understand why Anna would be offered this beautiful mansion under some very peculiar circumstances. Allegedly, Anna appealed to FS that if anything happened to her that he was to retrieve hard drives, videotapes, records, etc. from the house. Where is Howard when all of this is supposed to be taking place. then he is called upon to testify at the hearing in FL and brings along a very incriminating videotape of Anna painted up like a clown, mumbling in her “little girl” voice one could barely underestand. She used this voice in the alien movie as well as the costume, she used the voice when she and Kim shopped for the Bo Peep costume and in various segments of the Anna Nicole Show. I think that this tape has been altered to show a dark side of this poor soul, and, of course, the media jumped on it with all fours. It doesn’t seem likely that she would do anything to become so wasted in front of FS’s little girl. Big Moe said during his interview on the LKL show they were playing at the pool and face painting that day. He also explained the circumstances behind the photo of Anna and Shane Gibson on the bed. On that occasion her friends had given her a baby shower. Big Moe presented another photo in the same room of all the attendees at the shower. So, things are not always as they seem. I think that Howard has his ducks in a row - he’s, getting the big stuff out of the way (filing the will and the inquest) and then he’s going to come out like Buster’s gang!! Lin Wood is going to step up to the plate and it’s no more Mr. Nice Guy, and I hope he takes no prisoners. He should take them down alphabetically, and Virgie (Arthur, that is) heads the list.
welcome annpat: It is always good to get a new twist on Jane’s articles. There is more information about Anna’s estate on ……www.artharris.com. I watched a repeat of CNN evening news program. The first part was about ANS estate, Art Harris was a guest, when the show host was ripping into HKS about the estate, she asked Art about it, when he was explaining things to her, she cut him off and tried to swing it back to her reasoning, Art again tried to explain the probate as ANS will is concerned. The host cut him off completely, when he wouldn;t agree with her. She then asked a probate lawyer to explain. When he said everything was being done legally and above board she cut him off, and continued to put her own spin on things. I would think a corporation like CNN would be sure too have their facts straight.
annpat:
I enjoyed your post.
I, however, do not believe Anna asked Ford Shelley to take anything. By that time, Anna and the Thompson/Shelley people were not on the best of terms. If you saw one of the first interviews by Greta with the Shelleys, Ford was being emotional, which seemed very unnatural, while his wife was composed and speaking normally. Either Ford Shelley had some incriminating evidence he wanted out of that Horizons home, or there was some hanky panky going on which Ford was trying to cover up in front of his wife by shedding those crocodile tears. Eventually, it will be found out, and I am looking forward to the explosion.
Most importantly, it does not seem like Anna had anything to hide from Howard, (which would have justified her asking someone other than Howard to be in charge of her possessions for safekeeping) her best friend. He witnessed and tolerated all her indiscretions while persistently sticking around and in the end she had the sense to choose him over others.
Laura P: Thank you for this invitation, but I have to pass for now. I think we have very strong opinions about some things, Unfortunately they are on opposite sides.
Lynda:
I also watched Nancy Grace today after a long boycott. I could not believe how nasty she was to those guys. I thought she had changed her ways after Lin Wood came on board, but I guess it is too hard for her to control her desire to squash Howard.
When Nancy threw that fit, she immediately reminded everyone that it is “that eight-month-old” little girl who was missing out on the missing fortune. Of course everyone tries to cover their ugliness by pretending to be looking out for Dannielynn.
NG what a joke. I don’t understand how CNN can continually give her a platform to spew her venom. She is way off base most of the time and when a guest tries to steer her in the right direction she cuts them off. A good lawyer she is NOT. A cordial host who accepts the truth when put in front of her,,, she is NOT. I have e-mailed CNN numerous times to let them know how disappointed I am that they allow her to be associated with their good name.
I’m glad Art Harris stood up for THE TRUTH.
I stopped watching NG awhile ago but was (sorry to say) enticed by the material being discussed in her show lastnight. Again I found myself angrily talking back to the tv,,,,wishing NG was sitting in front of me so I could set her straight. (:
Do you think that FS took all those items for possible resale. The isale of the diaries, etc. have generated a few bucks. I know these folks are supposedly very wealthy, but they wouldn’t turn down an opportunity like that. When I made the statement about “where is Howard . . ., I was being facetious. FS mentioned on the stand that she had made the request of him to retrieve various trhings in the event of whatever might happen to her, then he pulled out the clown video, there happened to be a VCR handy. It appeared that the judge wasn’t too reeceptiive about putting the video on, but allowed it. The thought passed my mind why would she bypass Howard and turn to someone she barely knew. Nothing appears to be going on about the B&E at Horizons, but those island cops don’t seem to snap into action the way we do up here, e.g. the Hollowy case is being revived in Aruba.
I have watched NG, Judge Crier,Greta, the Great, and Banfield can come off rather cold, and have enjoyed as much of them as I can stand!!!! Greta always seems to be on the side of the winner. Look at the way she treated the Holloway folks. Now, it’s almost Beth, who??? I thought you guys said that NG and Crier were no longer with CTV. Does this mean that they didn’t lose their jobs, they know where they are, but someone else is doing them!!!! (Little humor there). Nancy Grace’s claim to fame was the OJ case when she co-anchored a show with Johnny Cochran. It didn’t last long. My son usually comes inito the den to ask who am I talking to, or am I yelling at the TV again, and adds why do you watch that stuff if it upsets you so. Then he says, what’s going on now?
Virgie appears to be losing ground and I think the media and public are growing weary of her antics. It would be interesting to know who is picking up the tab for that old gal. Well, in my book, they are beating a dead horse. She’s lost all-around and she should put on her big girl panties and deal with it. It’s too bad that these folks have been left out of the will. it is so obvious that the whole family has climbed on the BUCK-board and will do anything to generate a dollar out of any connection they might have had with Anna. Everyone appears to be so surprised as to the wording of the Last Will. Who would draw up a will at age 32 and have any notion that that will would go into probate 7 years later. Yes, she named Daniel as the only legatee, rightly so. How would they have felt if she had included a clause that in the event that Daniel predeceases me, I give and bequeath the remainder of my estate to SUGAR PIE. Now, wouldn’t that have been a kick in the head. I’m going to leave y’all with that thought. By the way, whatever happened to Sugar Pie??
Lynda,
You sound like such a sweet, dear lady. Everyone’s opinion here has value and merit. I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone’s posts, even when they are opposing viewpoints.
In reading a variety of posts we can all gain insight, be enlightened, reevaluate, or affirm our opinions, and ultimately walk away with our own
perspective.
We are a sisterhood in our endeavor to seek the truth. Thomas Mann (essay on Freud) said:
“A great truth is a truth whose opposite is also a truth.”
A.P…….Thank you. The reason I like posting on this sight is the differing opinions. Everyone brings a new perspective, the fact that life is not one dimensional means that every person sees a different side of the same story. When a person believes something very strongly, it is to there credit that they stick to there guns. If people were easily swayed it would be a very boring world. IT is only through new information and hopefully facts that we can come to a conclusion, and it will never be satisfactory to everyone. That is why we keep searching, it would be a terrible waste of intellect if we had no curiosity or were lead blindly.
#234 SQUEAKER: You sound like me when I watch NG, Every time I heard some of the things she said, I would bounce around like a lunatic. The only thing I could liken it to was my father watching his hockey team losing a game. I couldn’t tell you how many times I tried to phone. For some reason I couldn’t get through. I would drive my daughter crazy ranting and raving about how even I knew better than NG. That is why I broke down and bought my laptop. My 4yr. old grandson gets great pleasure showing Nana how to use it.
Lynda,
I keep hoping against hope that NG and GRETA will show some compassion,or at least show us some intelligence when discussing ANS, HKS, and company. Their antics never cease to amaze me. I wish their employer would tell them to shapeup or ship out. (:
Laura P: I just read my response to your invitation. I didn’t realize how curt and rude it was I apologize, I’m unable to accept your invitation for personal reasons. I hope at another time I will be able to accept. THE fact that we may disagree about some things, has nothing to do with anything. Again I apologize.
You are most welcome!
On an ET interview dated, December 18, 2006, Anna stated “Howard (K. Stern) is the sweetest , nicest person I’ve ever met in my life besides my husband, J. Howard Marshall II. It’s like my husband sent him to me.”
It is obvious to me that Howard loved Anna deeply . He was a constant , devoted, and loyal companion. They appeared to be inseparable and best friends. He stood by her in good times and bad. He understood her better than anyone and accepted her faults.
There relationship had the makings for a good marriage. I am puzzled as to why Anna had a relationship with Larry when she had someone as wonderful as Howard. Did she take Howard for granted ? Did she get tired of waiting for him? Did she not realize what she had till the end? I have contemplated this for months.
A.P……… I can only speculate, but from what I saw ANS was the party animal, I know nothing of LB but he may have liked the night life to. HKS I don’t think is really into to many parties. ANS said she wanted a fair haired, blue eyed child to look like Daniel,and her clock must have been ticking up a storm. That would leave HKS out. You are right I don’t think she knew what she had until it was all over.
AP:
I have contemplated the same, and I even painted my own “love story” version of how I saw the two of them. I know. It doesn’t make sense that Howard and Anna were lovers, until towards the end of her life, as it is quite apparent on all those ET videos. The tenderness and warmth were very obvious to anyone. Unfortunately, she was still grieving over Daniel’s death, and it kept hitting her periodically I’m sure, even though she had Howard and good friends around her like Moe.
I think we all know Anna’s weaknesses, but even moreso, we understand how Anna became who she was. We know her unfortunate childhood and abuses, so we have compassion, as I’m sure all her close friends did, too. I think we all are pretty confident she & Howard would have gone onto have a very good marriage, as it seemed to me she had “settled down”. The shock of Daniel’s death did that to her. Yet, she was a complex woman, made more complex with the neverending use of drugs to soothe her physical pains and to soothe her emotions.
I believe deep down inside this woman’s heart that she finally found Howard, and they found each other, through all the grief and all the tragedy. She just couldn’t go on anymore. She was so very, very tired…
Lynda:
I know well of ticking clocks. From the time I was 37 through the age of 40 I was so eager to have another child, it reminds me of a feline in heat!
Lynda, Laura P. and Isabel,
Thank you for responding to my post.
Lynda- Your post made me think.
Laura P.- Yours brought tears to my eyes.
Isabel- Your reply made me smile. ( I had my children in my thirties.)
I don’t understand why I am so caught up in this tragic saga. I have a life- a very happy and satisfying one.
I just read on CourtTV that Art Harris will be doing an interview with “Anna’s step brother who is in jail” tomorrow night on Insider. I am assuming that this interview will be with Celeria (aka Larry) and just thought that I would let you guys know. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to American programming so I would really appreciate if someone who watches can give a brief update after it airs!
Micha,
We would be glad to give an update. Thanks so much for the information.
EJ - Thanks. I’ll be sure to check out the comments section here!
Good Evening! Just so you know, no one scaried me off. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I just had some things that came up that needed my attention. I do love Virgie very much and will defend her. Yes, she has made some mistakes but who hasn’t.
Regina: How lucky that Virgie has a friend.
Thanks Isabel! I am lucky to have her also.
I don’t normally feel the need to comment because so many other peopel say what i was going to say anyway, but I see Reginas back and heres what i want to know. ANybody can come online and say this or that. Jane said she doesn’t know who you are but that your not David’s wife regina. So then who are you and why should anybody believe anything you say.?
Regina,
Welcome back! You are right , we have all made mistakes over time.
RonnieW, You are right that I am not David’s ex-wife Regina. But I have been a member of the family for over 10 years. I have been through a lot with Virgie and I stepped forward because I didnt like some of the things that were said about her. It is your choice to believe me. Just remember that are two sides to every story.
Regina,
Do you know why Virgie didn’t mention Celeria (Larry Dale Hart) as one of her children when she was on the stand in Florida? As I understand it, he was living with her (and with both Anna and Shana) while she was married to Donald. Why would she consider Shana her child and not Celeria/Larry?
Micha # 247
Are you referring to the interview on Entertainment Tonight ? You can go to www.etonline.com and read a brief summary of the interview. You can also view a three second clip of the interview.
A.P. #257. Yes. I was referring to the Insider interview. I read the article posted on etonline. Thanks for pointing it out. : ) If anyone does manage to catch the interview tonight - please do keep those of us who can’t watch it posted!
Virgie did not list Larry Dale as one of her children in Florida because they had lost touch when he got in trouble went back to live with his mom side of his family. Occasionally you would hear about him from Don.
Regina, is your real name Jackie?
No, my real name is not Jackie.
Regina:
If I were a member of Virgie’s family, I would be ashamed to announce it to the public. I do not need a reoly. It is a statement.
Is anyone here watching the interview with LDH tonight? If so, could you give a brief update???
If you knew Virgie, the person and not what you are allowed to see in the media, you would understand, how I feel the way I do.
Hi Micha,
Yes, I just saw it. Unfortunately, ET cut the interview to just about a minute long, and filled in the blanks with their own gab. Art asked LDH about the gun incident. LDH repeated the story that Don Jr. dropped the purse, but explained more about the trajectory. LDH also said that Anna and everyone in the house saw the aftermath of the incident.
Micah,
Go to Art Harris’ website and you can view The Insider and ET interviews which were essentially the same.
www.artharris.com
So Regina, what did you think of the Larry Dale Hart interview?
What I remember Virgie saying about the accident with the gun is that she got a couple of hours sleep and they were getting ready to go somewhere when the accident happened.
He was right, if Virgie would have thought that Larry molested Vickie, she would have shot him.
Okay, but did you not say earlier that Larry was the guy who molested Anna? Are you still believing that and if so, why? And are you saying Anna confided to other family members but not to Virgie?
When the first allegations came out David was ask if he had molested Vickie. He said no, that it was Larry. When I asked Virgie, she told me that she didnt think that it happen and no one ever told her anything about it.
Do I think that it happened? Yes! Do I think that Virgie knew about it? No! Kids keep secrets, parents are usually the last to know. Virgie mostly worked nights when the kids were young. First at the 7/11 and then with the Sheriff’s office. Don worked days so that there was someone at home most of the time.
Virgie spent most of the last seven years before she retired from the Sheriff’s dept. teaching RAD (Rape Aggression Defense) class to women and children. She was actived with Scared Straight program. Where they take troubled kids to the prison for the day. She was learning a new program help kids stay away from gangs.
How do you think David knew?
I dont know, when I see him Saturday I will try to find out
That would be good, Regina. It would be good to put some sort of definite — or as definite as can be — end to this part of the story.
Do you think Don Sr. knew, if he was the one home nights? Do you think other people knew and just didn’t want to tell Virgie, or maybe encouraged Anna not to?
I think that if Shauna knew she would have told since she was the tattle-tail of the kids. Dino was too young. Don and Virgie were very strick with the kids.
Regina,
Do you know how old Anna was at the time of the molestation?
Yes, but what about Don Sr.? Do you think he might have known?
I dont know what age she was! I dont think Don knew.
Regina, would you try to find out the possible age on Saturday, too?
You don’t think Don knew. Do you know if now that all this has happened, Virgie has asked Don?
I know Virgie has not asked Don. They have not spoke in a couple of months. He is the one in the past that spoke to the media and Virgie is the one that has always refused to speak. Now he is the one not speaking.
I’ve seen Virgie more than Don, but then again you might be talking about more local programming.
I would think Virgie would be as curious about this — more so — than the rest of us. If it were my daughter, I’d be moving heaven and earth to get to the bottom of the allegations, even if it meant speaking to an ex-husband I was mad at.
Does Virgie just not care about the allegations?
I was talking about in the past Don was the one that spoke to the media. Until Danny died Virgie would not talk to the media. The last time I talked to Virgie, she still does not think that it happened. She thinks that was a another story that Vickie spun for a better story.
Virgie didn’t have much faith in her daughter, did she? That’s sad.
I’ve done a lot of reading on Vicki’s life. I do not believe she was a liar. She exaggerated sometimes, but did not tell any big whoppers as far as I could see. Even her dirt poor Mexia story was partially true. I’m sure Virgie and Don weren’t rolling in the dough with five kids . . . and Anna was dirt poor in Mexia at 15.
I think most people, especially those versed on child sexual abuse, would see Anna’s path in life as a clear sign that something happened to her. Poor performance in school, fights with other children, escapism into dreaming, then drugs . . . stripping . . .alcohol . . .more drugs . . . and many many men used to heal the wounds or bring something of comfort or security.
I remember Anna the day she made the allegations. She had just lost her son, was reeling from grief, and defending herself against murder allegations. Do you really believe she was just spinning a story for more media attention? I don’t think you do. You’ve told us you believe she was molested.
So why can’t Virgie see it? Or did she see it — and decide to brush it under the rug?
Maybe because she spent her life helping women to protect themselves from it happening. To think that it happened to your own child is hard to take. It is hard to say what is going in someone else’s mind. She has been trained not to show emotion. She feels guilty that she was not able to stop Vickie’s death after Daniel’s. She wants to make it up with Dannielynn.
Regina, you’ve told me you know Virgie. I have no way to verify this independently, and you’ve not let me with your consent. So, do me a favor if you will, and we’ll take the answer with a grain of doubt, but at least it will have been asked. Ask Virgie: If she can’t confront the past of her deceased daughter, how does she expect to address the future with her granddaughter? If she cannot make it right with Anna, even in death — by helping tell the truth of her life, even if it runs the risk of admitting a few mistakes — how can she make it up to Dannielynn?
These are not lightly asked questions. Many people, including those whose opinions may help a judge form his legal opinion, will ask why, at this juncture, Virgie should be afforded any credibility.
I have asked her to talk to you but her legal advisors tell her not to. I have email your’s and Art email address to her advisors too. Asking that she be allowed to.
That’s disappointing, but not unexpected. I would think, at least, that Art Harris would pass muster with Clark and O’Quinn. I hope they reconsider.
Until then, if you could pose the questions it would be appreciated. Thanks.
I can imagine how horrible a mother would feel after causing her son to be crippled for life and I would expect the mother to take the best care of him as possible. Yet, he continued on to commit crimes and is now in jail. That poor guy is retarded and in jail.
I think I would feel so guilty, I would find whatever help I could possibly find for him and if all failed, I would drag myself to visit him in jail as often as allowed, rather than make a spectacle of myself by fighting to gain custody of my grandchild, asking to manage the money, lie down on Daniel’s grave while the cameras rolled, shovel all the dirt until the grave is filled while all eyes were on me and continue to fight to gain custody!
This is beyond my comprehension.
Editor’s Note: Isabel, Larry Jenkins (Hart) is in jail. He is Virgie’s stepson — the adopted son of Donald Hart Sr. Virgie’s bio son with Hart, Don Hart Jr. is the one who was shot, and he already served his time in prison. Presently he resides near Virgie.
Yeah Jane, pass the mustard…just kidding
Honestly though, I would love to have answers to the questions posed here. I understand about the attorneys wanting Virgie to stay quiet, however we are continually stuck with media half truths and edited video. Virgie’s truth will come out in court and be part of a public record eventually. Common O’Quinn, let the woman speak. I wonder if O’Quinn would let her speak if you agreed that the only commentary would be from you Jane? I know that is not the issue but it would help with the comfort level anyway.
Regina,
Do you know how old Larry was when he stopped living with Virgie and Donald? In the interview, he mentions going to Mexia. Did he move there with Anna too? Was he involved in the same incident that Donald Jr. was involved in (re the kidnapping)? Also - when did he start using the name Larry and do you know why he picked that name? And last but not least, is there a Robert somewhere? I ask because a “Robert” keeps getting mentioned as one of the children and there doesn’t seem to be one…Is this just a mistake that was started by Donna’s book? (She mentions that Shana and “Robert” go to live with Virgie).
Micha, Larry moved back with his own mother. The name Larry is derived from Celeria (Leri, Larry). No, he was not involved in Don Jr’s escapade. And yes, Hogan’s book was wrong. The family tree will be posted as part of the wrap-up. - Jane
Thanks for answering Jane! I find it an odd coincidence that both Larry and Donald Jr. were charged with kidnapping/assault on a disabled person. Do you know if there is any connection to the two events?
Micha, Don Jr was charged with kidnapping a disabled woman. He was one of four people who were charged. Larry was charged with assault to a handicapped person. The charges were years apart.
Thanks again for clearing up the confusion Jane.
Micah,
The second part of the interview is on Art Harris’ site today. Larry’s description of the gun incident is shown.
Thanks A.P.! I checked a little while back but it wasn’t up yet. I’ll just have to right back and check again…
Regina,
I find your posts fascinating and i hope you continue to enlighten us on
your perspective of VA and family.
Jane I’m glad your on the case and asking good ?’s. I hope they all get answered. Although they may not be answered truthfully.
I believe everything ANS said happened to her. I feel great saddness
for VA deciding to NOT believe in her daughters statements. Her actions
are unforgivable.
Squeaker, I think it would be wise to take Regina’s words with the proverbial grain of salt. We simply do not know who she is. She could be anyone, from a next door neighboor to a complete stranger who’s simply done her homework. She will net let me verify her identity, and that’s a big red flag to me, having nothing to do with interviews or stories — but simply establishing her claimed connection to the family.
Perhaps, too, that’s why she communicates with me, a bottom of the totem pole writer, and not an investigative journalist like Art Harris. It’s easier to jerk my chain.
I’m just saying, I agree. It may/may not be the truth and may/may not be a family member.
When and how did we bump into the name Larry Dale Jenkins? I read it - originally - in a post that Kim provided on another site. Was Regina the source of this name? If so, she must definitely be connected somehow with the family??? If not, then she certainly provided some knowledgeable direction? (Not completely correct - but close). She said that Larry was Shana’s “full brother” which he isn’t. But she certainly knew more than the rest of us! (We hadn’t heard of him at all until that point.)
To me, this begs a lot of questions….She (Regina) keeps saying that she is a close family member who intends to support Virgie. If she is the one that brought Larry to our attention - Is it possible that she is close to the family but not necessarily one who will stand staunch to hide Virgie’s secrets? After all, she has spoken about subjects and individuals and circumstances that I cannot believe Virgie would have liked to have exposed?!!
Just a thought?
Micha,
I have enjoyed your stories about your precious toddler. I have a son (15 years old) and a 13 year old daughter. Your stories have made me reminisce about their toddler years. Your “back” story brought “back” images of rocking them, kissing their toes and jokingly reciting the following tongue twister:
Moses supposes his toeses are posies of roses, but Moses supposes erroneously. For nobody’s toeses are posies of roses as Moses supposes his toeses to be.
Micha, reflecting on your post about Regina. If she is legitimate, I want to hear what she has to say. However, the problem with the internet (as I am sure you are aware) is its anonymity. There are too many “unstable ” people out there preying on unsuspecting victims via the internet. Many, unfortunately, with excellent researching skills and nefarious motives.
She recently posted on Art Harris” site that she is a law abiding citizen, so there is no criminal past being hidden. So what is she trying to hide? If Regina does not allow Jane to verify her identity then I would say , as my toes tongue twister implies, something just doesn’t smell right.
A.P. I had forgotten the “Moses supposes…” tongue twister! I’m so happy that you typed it out here. I will DEFINITELY be introducing that and I have no doubts that it will delight my little man! (Thank you.) : )
Re. Regina. Having read and re-read her posts I believe that if she is not a family member, she knows one or may be connected in some way. (She seems to know some things about Anna’s backround that many of us would not…) What I’m not clear (or convinced) about is her motive. She claims to be here as a defendent of Virgie’s and yet she has revealed information that I’m not sure Virgie would be so happy to reveal and she has done so, without any really convincing defence for Virgie’s actions. (eg. the gun going off, LDJ’s not being mentioned on the stand). Yes, she answered these questions but not in a manner that conveys great conviction about VA’s situation. For example, if she were a real supporter of Virgie’s, would she not have stressed the heartache and disapointment (trauma and guilt) that a mother would have felt knowing that HER gun had severely injured her own son? Regina talks about this incident in a very matter-of-fact manner. “Oh, she had put the bag down on the bed and the child picked it up…” (Not her quotations - my interpretations of the lack of sentiment/emotion expressed).
I don’t know who she is or why she chose to come here to chat but nothing that she has written here has convinced me that Virgie is different from what I had originally surmised. Regina - for whatever reason, doesn’t convince me. As an open-minded individual, I have been disapointed by her - because I would very much like to change my mind - I have been looking for a convincingly different perspective - and she has not provided it.